---

> Hi Joakim

> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
> Denmark?

Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.

>What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>Palestinians?

Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.

I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.

> may god be with you,

Thanks

> Elan

---

"Joakim"
> > Hi Joakim
> > Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
> > Denmark?
>
> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>
> >What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
> >Palestinians?
>
> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.

My estimate is;
All 10% of the muslims are in strong favor of Hamas!
All 2% of the extreme left (Enhedslisten)are in strong favor of Hamas!
Half of the left party SF (8%)are moderate in favor of Hamas
Most of the rest are in favor - or strong favor of - of Israel!!!

So my guess is 20/25 to 80/75 favor of Israel!!!

Mvh
Eyvind

---

"Eyvind" <eyvind@eyvind.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
news:gjikvt$fif$1@newsbin.cybercity.dk...
>
> "Joakim"
>> > Hi Joakim
>> > Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
>> > Denmark?
>>
>> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>>
>> >What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>> >Palestinians?
>>
>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>
> My estimate is;
> All 10% of the muslims are in strong favor of Hamas!
> All 2% of the extreme left (Enhedslisten)are in strong favor of Hamas!
> Half of the left party SF (8%)are moderate in favor of Hamas
> Most of the rest are in favor - or strong favor of - of Israel!!!
>
> So my guess is 20/25 to 80/75 favor of Israel!!!

I would second that opinion. Favor toward Israel have especially taken on
since Hamas seized power I believe.

Talking for myself, I also despises Hamas (Hezbollah and alike
organizations), who goes directly after harming the innocent public. And I
am sorry for both the innocent Palestinian and Israeli public who suffers in
fear or in some cases even real danger on behalf of Hamas' evil deeds, and
the current far to violent Israeli politics. However the difference in my
opinion is that the terrorists goes directly after the innocent, while
Israel at least goes after the guilty opponent. I could better accept that
Hamas was after an true opponent like an armed and active Israeli soldier or
something like that. But it is totally unacceptable to go directly after the
innocent Israeli civilians, as it would be unacceptable to be ignorant of
the killings of the innocent Palestinians that are killed together with the
guilty Hamas svines.

You could say that I have
0% sympathy for Hamas,
0% sympathy for right-wing Israeli settlers
0% sympathy for rock throwing Palestinians and alike.

I have perhaps around 25% sympathy for the general but to much
"apartheid-like" and hardcore Israeli politics toward the Palestinians
(leaving 75% against the general Israeli politics towards the Palestinian
public). I believe that it only suits the radical powers on both sides, and
as such also the rabid, the extreme and more immoral opponents of Israel.

So all in all, my favor leans towards Israel. I have 100% sympathy for the
peace longing civilians on both sides, but no sympathy what so ever for the
extremists on both sides.

I recognize the Israel's right to defend it self, but as Israel is thousand
fold stronger than the Palestinians in military power, it represents a PR
nightmare for Israel. Where the Hamas rockets are a nuisance, and
only as a rare occurrence kills anyone, the military bombs of Israel
leaves a trail of both guilty and unfortunately also innocent blood. The
latter is putting a strain on my and many other natural sympathy for Israel
in this nasty conflict.

TBC

---

"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>
> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.

Please just be aware that this newsgroup luckily is a long shot from
representing the Danish public. This group is infested with radical
extremist. This group have a lot of foreign and Islam hating right-wingers,
Israeli hating left-wingers, and even some some nutty holocaust deniers and
Nazi sympathizers. So be warned!

TBC

---

TBC wrote:
> "Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
> news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>
>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>
> Please just be aware that this newsgroup luckily is a long shot from
> representing the Danish public. This group is infested with radical
> extremist. This group have a lot of foreign and Islam hating
> right-wingers, Israeli hating left-wingers, and even some some nutty
> holocaust deniers and Nazi sympathizers. So be warned!
>
> TBC

Øhh.

This group is in any possible way considered pro israeli. No matter what the
israeli regime consider right, this groups stands behind it!

---

DADK wrote:
> TBC wrote:
>> "Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
>> news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>
>>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>>
>>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>>
>> Please just be aware that this newsgroup luckily is a long shot from
>> representing the Danish public. This group is infested with radical
>> extremist. This group have a lot of foreign and Islam hating
>> right-wingers, Israeli hating left-wingers, and even some some nutty
>> holocaust deniers and Nazi sympathizers. So be warned!
>>
>> TBC
>
> Øhh.
>
> This group is in any possible way considered pro israeli. No matter
> what the israeli regime consider right, this groups stands behind it!

Det er en joke, misforstået engelsk

---

"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk
>> Hi Joakim
>
>> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
>> Denmark?
>
> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>
>> What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>> Palestinians?
>
> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>
> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>
>> may god be with you,
>
> Thanks
>
>> Elan

Hører det der egentlig ikke til privatsfæren ?

Ved din gode ven at du offentliggører jeres private korrespondence i et
offentligt forum ?

--
Kim Larsen
Socialist, republikaner, atomkraftmodstander og kritisk EU-tilhænger
Tag et kig på: http://dokusiden.frac.dk/ground69.htm
Genstart Danmark, stem socialistisk. E-mail: kl2607@gmail.com

---

"Kim Larsen" <kl2607@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:_wc7l.12357$xX7.12054@newsfe13.ams2...

>>> What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>>> Palestinians?
>>
>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>
>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>
> Ved din gode ven at du offentliggører jeres private korrespondence i et
> offentligt forum ?

jævnfør "I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup"

---

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:41:36 +0100, Kim Larsen wrote:

> "Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk
>>> Hi Joakim
>>
>>> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
>>> Denmark?
>>
>> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>>
>>> What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>>> Palestinians?
>>
>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>
>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>>
>>> may god be with you,
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>> Elan
>
> Hører det der egentlig ikke til privatsfæren ?

mon ikke denne ven er frit opfundet?

>
> Ved din gode ven at du offentliggører jeres private korrespondence i et
> offentligt forum ?

et modtaget brev(email) er modtagers ejendom og kan frit offentliggøres


PS.
og nej - gider ikke høre om afsløring af statshemmeligheder eller
viderebringelse af injurier

---

"@" <123@invalid.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:pan.2009.01.01.23.50.26.500000@invalid.net
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:41:36 +0100, Kim Larsen wrote:
>
>> "Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk
>>>> Hi Joakim
>>>
>>>> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys
>>>> in Denmark?
>>>
>>> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>>>
>>>> What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>>>> Palestinians?
>>>
>>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>>
>>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>>>
>>>> may god be with you,
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>> Elan
>>
>> Hører det der egentlig ikke til privatsfæren ?
>
> mon ikke denne ven er frit opfundet?
>
>>
>> Ved din gode ven at du offentliggører jeres private korrespondence i
>> et offentligt forum ?
>
> et modtaget brev(email) er modtagers ejendom og kan frit
> offentliggøres
>
>
> PS.
> og nej - gider ikke høre om afsløring af statshemmeligheder eller
> viderebringelse af injurier

Næ nej, det var også kun en moralsk anskuelse.

--
Kim Larsen
Socialist, republikaner, atomkraftmodstander og kritisk EU-tilhænger
Tag et kig på: http://dokusiden.frac.dk/ground69.htm
Genstart Danmark, stem socialistisk. E-mail: kl2607@gmail.com

---

Kim Larsen:

> Næ nej, det var også kun en moralsk anskuelse.

Men du ser intet problem i, at når du udtaler dig, så er det mest på
andres vegne?

--
Kim R Larsen skrev følgende:
"idioterne på højrefløjen her i dk.politik tror straks at jeg udtaler
mig på egne vegne hvilket jeg utrolig sjældent gør."
http://groups.google.dk/group/dk.politik/msg/ae4e78835ee0fdca?hl=da

---

"Kim Larsen" <kl2607@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
>
> Hører det der egentlig ikke til privatsfæren ?

Der er intet i den email der kompromitterer min ven eller undertegnede.

Jeg forsøger blot at give ham et indblik i danskernes uforbeholdne mening om
Israel-Palæstinakonflikten.

Du kan kalde det en slags vennetjeneste.

Til alle andre:

*Alle* svar og kommentarer /på engelsk/ hilses velkomne, og vil blive
videresendt

På forhånd tak.

---

Joakim wrote:
>> Hi Joakim
>
>> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
>> Denmark?
>
> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.

What the F??? Du er da ikke en skid dansker. Tag ikke den slags fine ord i
din mund. Du er som de andre perkere, kommer med død og ødelæggelse, og er
tilhænger af tortur, barbariske strafffe og vanvittig religionshysteri. I
alene er to ud af samme stykke, jøder og arabere - samme folkefærd, samme
idioti, og skyld i halvdelen af verdens fortrædeligheder. Her i gruppen
prøver du blot at skabe sympati om den ene part - se forsiden af EB lige nu,
hvor en lille bombesprængt pige kæmper for sit liv. Du tager det med herop,
akkurat som alle de andre perkere. Man kan jo kun håbe, at palæstinenserne
får RIGTIGE våben næste gamg, så kan i få lidt af jeres egen medicin, OG
sikkert bagefter slå så hårdt tilbage, at det udrydder jer selv. Tilbage kan
der så sidde nogle arabere og jøder i Europa og USA, og spørge sig selv om.
hvad der i grunden var der var så vigtigt.

>> What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>> Palestinians?
>
> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>
> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.

English is my best. Hvor dum du tror vi er? Hej, jeg har lige fået en mail
fra én, der gerne vil høre hvad danskerne mener, bla bla bla Her en mail fra
Hobro. Kære David, hvorfor er jøder i Danmark sådan en flok hyklere. Jeg har
ellers ofte mistænkt dig for at være jøde, du ved dit navn og udseende og
sympatier. Hilsen Bent. Ja, det ved jeg heller ikke, er helt flov nu jeg
tænker over det, men jeg vil lade spørgsmålet gå videre til gruppen. Hvorfor
er Israel og de jøder i Danmark der støtter det folkemord, der er i gang,
sådan nogle hyklere?

I må godt svare på engelsk, så kan Joakim sende dem ned til Israel.

---

"DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
news:495df2a4$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> Joakim wrote:
>>> Hi Joakim
>>
>>> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
>>> Denmark?
>>
>> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>
> What the F??? Du er da ikke en skid dansker. Tag ikke den slags fine ord i
> din mund. Du er som de andre perkere, kommer med død og ødelæggelse, og er
> tilhænger af tortur, barbariske strafffe og vanvittig religionshysteri. I
> alene er to ud af samme stykke, jøder og arabere - samme folkefærd, samme
> idioti, og skyld i halvdelen af verdens fortrædeligheder. Her i gruppen
> prøver du blot at skabe sympati om den ene part - se forsiden af EB lige
> nu, hvor en lille bombesprængt pige kæmper for sit liv. Du tager det med
> herop, akkurat som alle de andre perkere. Man kan jo kun håbe, at
> palæstinenserne får RIGTIGE våben næste gamg, så kan i få lidt af jeres
> egen medicin, OG sikkert bagefter slå så hårdt tilbage, at det udrydder
> jer selv. Tilbage kan der så sidde nogle arabere og jøder i Europa og USA,
> og spørge sig selv om. hvad der i grunden var der var så vigtigt.
>
>>> What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>>> Palestinians?
>>
>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>
>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>
> English is my best. Hvor dum du tror vi er? Hej, jeg har lige fået en
> mail fra én, der gerne vil høre hvad danskerne mener, bla bla bla Her en
> mail fra Hobro. Kære David, hvorfor er jøder i Danmark sådan en flok
> hyklere. Jeg har ellers ofte mistænkt dig for at være jøde, du ved dit
> navn og udseende og sympatier. Hilsen Bent. Ja, det ved jeg heller ikke,
> er helt flov nu jeg tænker over det, men jeg vil lade spørgsmålet gå
> videre til gruppen. Hvorfor er Israel og de jøder i Danmark der støtter
> det folkemord, der er i gang, sådan nogle hyklere?

Kniber det med at skrive på engelsk Konrad?

Kun indlæg på engelsk folks!

Indtil videre har tre personer svaret, selvom det er rigtige gode
meningstilkendegivelser, så håber jeg på, at endnu flere vil give
deres besyv med.

>
> I må godt svare på engelsk, så kan Joakim sende dem ned til Israel.
>

Som sagt *alle* synspunkter er velkomne. Den eneste betingelse er, at de
skal være skrevet på engelsk.

Og lige en slutbemærkning til Konrad:

Det er fint at du angriber mine synspunkter, men må du godt undlade at
angribe min person fremover. Ellers kan vi ikke debattere med hinanden.

---

Joakim wrote:

> Kniber det med at skrive på engelsk Konrad?

Godt ord igen. Jeg bliver bare så edderperkemig sur!

> Kun indlæg på engelsk folks!
>
> Indtil videre har tre personer svaret, selvom det er rigtige gode
> meningstilkendegivelser, så håber jeg på, at endnu flere vil give
> deres besyv med.
>
>>
>> I må godt svare på engelsk, så kan Joakim sende dem ned til Israel.
>>
>
> Som sagt *alle* synspunkter er velkomne. Den eneste betingelse er, at
> de skal være skrevet på engelsk.
>
> Og lige en slutbemærkning til Konrad:
>
> Det er fint at du angriber mine synspunkter, men må du godt undlade at
> angribe min person fremover. Ellers kan vi ikke debattere med
> hinanden.

Point taken (det var engelsk) In my opinion, you must realize the level of
anger and despair building up, for me and other those existence and life is
based on strictly nonviolent ideas. I am not against Israel, or pro-pali, im
against ruining human life by war.

---

Joakim wrote:
> "DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
> news:495df2a4$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> Joakim wrote:
>>>> Hi Joakim
>>>
?
>>>
>>> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>>>
>>> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.

Hvad med at sende lederen fra JP?

Den findes på engelsk på Nettet, - så jeg i dag.

---

"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> Hi Joakim
>
>> Did you hear about the muslim terrorist that shot two Israeli guys in
>> Denmark?
>
> Yes. As a Dane it is not something that I am proud of.
>
>>What is the public opinion in Denmark regarding Israel and the
>>Palestinians?
>
> Well, why not ask the Danish public directly.
>
> I am forwarding your question to a Danish newsgroup.
>
>> may god be with you,
>
> Thanks
>
>> Elan
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian state.
I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from the EU!

About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in custody, aproaching
court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of justice.

Greets
Jens Erik Bech

---

Lyrik wrote:
> I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian state.
> I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from the EU!
>
> About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in custody,
> aproaching court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of
> justice.

<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>

So, Lyrik,

You are Christian? You strongly believe in peace, hamony and the Gospel?

How can you support murder of children, even in the holy days of Jesus
birth?

---

"DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
news:495dfa5a$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> Lyrik wrote:
>> I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian state.
>> I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from the EU!
>>
>> About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in custody,
>> aproaching court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of
>> justice.
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> So, Lyrik,
>
> You are Christian? You strongly believe in peace, hamony and the Gospel?
>
> How can you support murder of children, even in the holy days of Jesus
> birth?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
How can You support Hamas who wants to destroy Israel?

Jens

---

Lyrik wrote:
> "DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
> news:495dfa5a$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> Lyrik wrote:
>>> I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian
>>> state. I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from
>>> the EU! About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in
>>> custody,
>>> aproaching court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of
>>> justice.
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> So, Lyrik,
>>
>> You are Christian? You strongly believe in peace, hamony and the
>> Gospel? How can you support murder of children, even in the holy days of
>> Jesus birth?
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> How can You support Hamas who wants to destroy Israel?
>
> Jens

Im not supporting Hamas - im against killing people.

---

DADK wrote:
> Lyrik wrote:
>> "DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
>> news:495dfa5a$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>> Lyrik wrote:
>>>> I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian
>>>> state. I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from
>>>> the EU! About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in
>>>> custody,
>>>> aproaching court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of
>>>> justice.
>>>
>>> <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> So, Lyrik,
>>>
>>> You are Christian? You strongly believe in peace, hamony and the
>>> Gospel? How can you support murder of children, even in the holy
>>> days of Jesus birth?
>> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>> How can You support Hamas who wants to destroy Israel?
>>
>> Jens
>
> Im not supporting Hamas - im against killing people.

Men det er Hamas ikke.

---

Knud Larsen wrote:
> DADK wrote:
>> Lyrik wrote:
>>> "DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
>>> news:495dfa5a$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>>> Lyrik wrote:
>>>>> I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian
>>>>> state. I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from
>>>>> the EU! About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in
>>>>> custody,
>>>>> aproaching court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of
>>>>> justice.
>>>>
>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, Lyrik,
>>>>
>>>> You are Christian? You strongly believe in peace, hamony and the
>>>> Gospel? How can you support murder of children, even in the holy
>>>> days of Jesus birth?
>>> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>>> How can You support Hamas who wants to destroy Israel?
>>>
>>> Jens
>>
>> Im not supporting Hamas - im against killing people.
>
> Men det er Hamas ikke.

Thats not the point. I would regard Israel as the good guys, however recent
happenings let me to the question : What is the difference? A simple
analysis performs the result that no part is to be blamed solitarily.

---

DADK <dadk@webspeed.dk> declared in:
49690d7f$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk :
> Knud Larsen wrote:
>> DADK wrote:
>>> Lyrik wrote:
>>>> "DADK" <dadk@webspeed.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
>>>> news:495dfa5a$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>>>> Lyrik wrote:
>>>>>> I think that there by no means can be established a palestinian
>>>>>> state. I'm strongly opposed to the support they are getting from
>>>>>> the EU! About the 2 israelis shot by a palestinian man, he is in
>>>>>> custody,
>>>>>> aproaching court, an he will get his sentence. This is a state of
>>>>>> justice.
>>>>>
>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, Lyrik,
>>>>>
>>>>> You are Christian? You strongly believe in peace, hamony and the
>>>>> Gospel? How can you support murder of children, even in the holy
>>>>> days of Jesus birth?
>>>> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>>>> How can You support Hamas who wants to destroy Israel?
>>>>
>>>> Jens
>>>
>>> Im not supporting Hamas - im against killing people.
>>
>> Men det er Hamas ikke.
>
> Thats not the point. I would regard Israel as the good guys, however
> recent happenings let me to the question : What is the difference? A
> simple analysis performs the result that no part is to be blamed
> solitarily.

I agree.
I see no white hats in this tragedy. Only outlaws and innocents on
both sides.

---

"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:495cd07e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

**** lukket for yderligere svar****

---

"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:495e7107$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk

> **** lukket for yderligere svar****

Nej.

--
-Jens B.

D.e.f.f.e.s.