---

/ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
   
Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at
stoppe den negative økonomiske udvikling.

Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence
Kotlikoff fra universitetet i Boston.

I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer Kotlikoff
Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i en kritisk tilstand.

Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver nødvendigt med
drastiske skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af velfærdsprogrammerne med
to tredjedele for at løse problemerne.

Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som
Laurence Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.

Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets egentlige
betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet, insolvent, snart
udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand til at betale sin gæld.

----

Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
dem i Danmark?

---

"Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>
> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at stoppe
> den negative økonomiske udvikling.
>
> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence Kotlikoff
> fra universitetet i Boston.
>
> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
> Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer Kotlikoff
> Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i en kritisk tilstand.
>
> Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver nødvendigt med drastiske
> skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af velfærdsprogrammerne med to
> tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
>
> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som Laurence
> Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
>
> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets egentlige
> betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet, insolvent, snart
> udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand til at betale sin gæld.


Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige overfald og
besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde cirkuset i gang.

> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
> dem i Danmark?

Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne grise
hvis det sker.

--
Kim Larsen

Socialist, republikaner, EU-tilhænger og atomkraftmodstander.
Socialisme er den eneste troværdige vej frem.
Husk at krigen i Irak er folkeretligt smask-ulovlig.

Direkte e-mail: kla2(a)get2net.dk

---

Kim Larsen wrote:
> "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
>> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>>
>> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at stoppe
>> den negative økonomiske udvikling.
>>
>> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence Kotlikoff
>> fra universitetet i Boston.
>>
>> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
>> Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer Kotlikoff
>> Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i en kritisk tilstand.
>>
>> Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver nødvendigt med drastiske
>> skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af velfærdsprogrammerne med to
>> tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
>>
>> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som Laurence
>> Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
>>
>> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets egentlige
>> betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet, insolvent, snart
>> udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand til at betale sin gæld.
>
>
> Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige overfald og
> besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde cirkuset i gang.

Jeg mener at man har brugt for mange penge på at holde olie prisen i USA
nede, da dette har medført et overforbrug af den dyre olie.
>
>> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
>> dem i Danmark?
>
> Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne grise
> hvis det sker.
>
Mon de ikke klapper totalt i, som østers på land?

---

Peter Ole Kvint <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> wrote:

> Kim Larsen wrote:
> > "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> > news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
> >> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
> >>
> >> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at stoppe
> >> den negative økonomiske udvikling.
> >>
> >> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence Kotlikoff
> >> fra universitetet i Boston.
> >>
> >> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
> >> Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer Kotlikoff
> >> Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i en kritisk tilstand.
> >>
> >> Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver nødvendigt med drastiske
> >> skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af velfærdsprogrammerne med to
> >> tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
> >>
> >> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som Laurence
> >> Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
> >>
> >> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets egentlige
> >> betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet, insolvent, snart
> >> udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand til at betale sin gæld.
> >
> >
> > Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige overfald og
> > besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde cirkuset i gang.
>
> Jeg mener at man har brugt for mange penge på at holde olie prisen i USA
> nede, da dette har medført et overforbrug af den dyre olie.

Det er prisen for at undertrykke markedsøkonomien.

> >> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
> >> dem i Danmark?
> >
> > Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne grise
> > hvis det sker.
> >
> Mon de ikke klapper totalt i, som østers på land?

Næ - vi finder bare andre lande at drage til, og bidrage til, end de
steder hvor socialisterne mener det er ok at brandbeskatte folk. Fx.
Schweiz, Belize, Chile, Irland.

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse news:1hiqlj7.12ku35isx8pqrN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
> Peter Ole Kvint <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>
>> Kim Larsen wrote:
>> > "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
>> > news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
>> >> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>> >>
>> >> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at stoppe
>> >> den negative økonomiske udvikling.
>> >>
>> >> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence Kotlikoff
>> >> fra universitetet i Boston.
>> >>
>> >> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
>> >> Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer Kotlikoff
>> >> Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i en kritisk tilstand.
>> >>
>> >> Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver nødvendigt med drastiske
>> >> skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af velfærdsprogrammerne med to
>> >> tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
>> >>
>> >> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som Laurence
>> >> Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
>> >>
>> >> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets egentlige
>> >> betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet, insolvent, snart
>> >> udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand til at betale sin gæld.
>> >
>> >
>> > Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige overfald og
>> > besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde cirkuset i gang.
>>
>> Jeg mener at man har brugt for mange penge på at holde olie prisen i USA
>> nede, da dette har medført et overforbrug af den dyre olie.
>
> Det er prisen for at undertrykke markedsøkonomien.
>
>> >> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
>> >> dem i Danmark?
>> >
>> > Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne grise
>> > hvis det sker.
>> >
>> Mon de ikke klapper totalt i, som østers på land?
>
> Næ - vi finder bare andre lande at drage til, og bidrage til, end de
> steder hvor socialisterne mener det er ok at brandbeskatte folk. Fx.
> Schweiz, Belize, Chile, Irland.
>
> --
> regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
> "The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
> want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
> - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

Ja, og New Zealand skal man holde sig fra, for der har de sat skatterne op for at genopbygge alt og det er alt, efter at alt har været privatiseret.

Svend

---

Svend Poulsen <svend_poulsen_304@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ja, og New Zealand skal man holde sig fra, for der har de sat skatterne op
> for at genopbygge alt og det er alt, efter at alt har været privatiseret.
>
> Svend

Dokumentation, tak.

-- regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk "The politicians
don't just want your money. They want your soul. They want you to be
worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless." - James Dale
Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

Svend Poulsen wrote:
> ""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:1hiqlj7.12ku35isx8pqrN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
>> Peter Ole Kvint <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> Kim Larsen wrote:
>>>> "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>> news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
>>>>> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>>>>>
>>>>> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til
>>>>> at stoppe den negative økonomiske udvikling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence
>>>>> Kotlikoff fra universitetet i Boston.
>>>>>
>>>>> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St.
>>>>> Louis Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer
>>>>> Kotlikoff Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i
>>>>> en kritisk tilstand. Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver
>>>>> nødvendigt med
>>>>> drastiske skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af
>>>>> velfærdsprogrammerne med to tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
>>>>>
>>>>> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som
>>>>> Laurence Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets
>>>>> egentlige betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet,
>>>>> insolvent, snart udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand
>>>>> til at betale sin gæld.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige
>>>> overfald og besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde
>>>> cirkuset i gang.
>>>
>>> Jeg mener at man har brugt for mange penge på at holde olie prisen
>>> i USA nede, da dette har medført et overforbrug af den dyre olie.
>>
>> Det er prisen for at undertrykke markedsøkonomien.
>>
>>>>> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som
>>>>> svare til dem i Danmark?
>>>>
>>>> Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som
>>>> stukne grise hvis det sker.
>>>>
>>> Mon de ikke klapper totalt i, som østers på land?
>>
>> Næ - vi finder bare andre lande at drage til, og bidrage til, end de
>> steder hvor socialisterne mener det er ok at brandbeskatte folk. Fx.
>> Schweiz, Belize, Chile, Irland.
>>
>> --
>> regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
>> "The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul.
>> They want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and
>> helpless." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union
>
> Ja, og New Zealand skal man holde sig fra, for der har de sat
> skatterne op for at genopbygge alt og det er alt, efter at alt har
> været privatiseret.

Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til hvad der
skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New Zealand.

--
Allan Riise

---

Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:

> Svend Poulsen wrote:
> > ""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> > news:1hiqlj7.12ku35isx8pqrN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
> >> Peter Ole Kvint <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Kim Larsen wrote:
> >>>> "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> >>>> news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
> >>>>> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til
> >>>>> at stoppe den negative økonomiske udvikling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence
> >>>>> Kotlikoff fra universitetet i Boston.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St.
> >>>>> Louis Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer
> >>>>> Kotlikoff Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i
> >>>>> en kritisk tilstand. Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver
> >>>>> nødvendigt med
> >>>>> drastiske skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af
> >>>>> velfærdsprogrammerne med to tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som
> >>>>> Laurence Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets
> >>>>> egentlige betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet,
> >>>>> insolvent, snart udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand
> >>>>> til at betale sin gæld.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige
> >>>> overfald og besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde
> >>>> cirkuset i gang.
> >>>
> >>> Jeg mener at man har brugt for mange penge på at holde olie prisen
> >>> i USA nede, da dette har medført et overforbrug af den dyre olie.
> >>
> >> Det er prisen for at undertrykke markedsøkonomien.
> >>
> >>>>> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som
> >>>>> svare til dem i Danmark?
> >>>>
> >>>> Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som
> >>>> stukne grise hvis det sker.
> >>>>
> >>> Mon de ikke klapper totalt i, som østers på land?
> >>
> >> Næ - vi finder bare andre lande at drage til, og bidrage til, end de
> >> steder hvor socialisterne mener det er ok at brandbeskatte folk. Fx.
> >> Schweiz, Belize, Chile, Irland.
> >>
> >> --
> >> regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
> >> "The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul.
> >> They want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and
> >> helpless." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union
> >
> > Ja, og New Zealand skal man holde sig fra, for der har de sat
> > skatterne op for at genopbygge alt og det er alt, efter at alt har
> > været privatiseret.
>
> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til hvad der
> skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New Zealand.

Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev vedligeholdt
bedre efter at staten gav op.

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

"Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>
>> Svend Poulsen wrote:
>>> ""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en
>>> meddelelse news:1hiqlj7.12ku35isx8pqrN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
>>>> Peter Ole Kvint <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kim Larsen wrote:
>>>>>> "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>>> news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
>>>>>>> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til
>>>>>>> at stoppe den negative økonomiske udvikling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence
>>>>>>> Kotlikoff fra universitetet i Boston.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St.
>>>>>>> Louis Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer
>>>>>>> Kotlikoff Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i
>>>>>>> en kritisk tilstand. Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart
>>>>>>> bliver nødvendigt med
>>>>>>> drastiske skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af
>>>>>>> velfærdsprogrammerne med to tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som
>>>>>>> Laurence Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets
>>>>>>> egentlige betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet,
>>>>>>> insolvent, snart udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand
>>>>>>> til at betale sin gæld.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige
>>>>>> overfald og besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde
>>>>>> cirkuset i gang.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeg mener at man har brugt for mange penge på at holde olie prisen
>>>>> i USA nede, da dette har medført et overforbrug af den dyre olie.
>>>>
>>>> Det er prisen for at undertrykke markedsøkonomien.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som
>>>>>>> svare til dem i Danmark?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som
>>>>>> stukne grise hvis det sker.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Mon de ikke klapper totalt i, som østers på land?
>>>>
>>>> Næ - vi finder bare andre lande at drage til, og bidrage til, end
>>>> de steder hvor socialisterne mener det er ok at brandbeskatte
>>>> folk. Fx. Schweiz, Belize, Chile, Irland.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
>>>> "The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul.
>>>> They want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and
>>>> helpless." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union
>>>
>>> Ja, og New Zealand skal man holde sig fra, for der har de sat
>>> skatterne op for at genopbygge alt og det er alt, efter at alt har
>>> været privatiseret.
>>
>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til
>> hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New
>> Zealand.
>
> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev vedligeholdt
> bedre efter at staten gav op.

Dokumentation tak!

--
Allan Riise

---

Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:

> >> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til
> >> hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New
> >> Zealand.
> >
> > Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
> > Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev vedligeholdt
> > bedre efter at staten gav op.
>
> Dokumentation tak!

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/workingpapers/1999/twp99-10-1.pdf

Side 36, dr viser at fra deruguleringen i 1988, til privatiseringen i
1993 skete der en voldsom vækst i markedsandelen for jernbanetransport.

Og side 39:

"1994 to 1997 - Post Privatisation

This period was notable for 2 events; market share stopped falling
for the first time in 10 years and in real terms revenue grew, again
for the first time in 10 years.
"

og

"Overall it seems the period was one of stability compared to the
market upheaval of previous periods; with markets steadily getting
more competitive at the fringes. It seems that Tranz Rail have
found their areas (market segments) of competitive advantage and
are managing them very efficiently. The only issue is that of
longer-term sustainability as unit revenues decline and margins are
eroded as more of their costs become fixed. Customers have
continued to place pressure on Rail for price/quality trade-offs and
the competition inside the distribution business and outside their
other nominated segments is quite intense.
"

Læs også tabellen side 42.


Indtjening fra jernbanerne, side 43:

"Until 1994 the long term trend in real output prices had been in
sympathy with the decline in output volumes, they both fell, but
unlike the growth in volume since then, unit revenues have
continued to fall albeit at a slower rate. "

og side 44:

"Compared to rail passenger performance, InterIslander passenger
business is a real success story. Passenger numbers increased from
966,000 in 1994 to 1,085,000 in 1997 while revenues show
particularly strong growth from 1995. In the summer of 1994/95
Tranz Rail introduced a fast ferry service across Cook Strait to cater
for passengers that want a shorter travel time and who are prepared
to pay a price premium for it. For part of that summer season and
the following summer two operators competed with Tranz Rail in
the fast ferry portion of the InterIsland business but both failed to
survive. Competition for passenger non-vehicle transport exists
from Plimmerton. "


Læs opsummeringen side 45.


--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

"Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>
>>>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til
>>>> hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New
>>>> Zealand.
>>>
>>> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
>>> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev vedligeholdt
>>> bedre efter at staten gav op.
>>
>> Dokumentation tak!
>
> http://www.treasury.govt.nz/workingpapers/1999/twp99-10-1.pdf
>
> Side 36, dr viser at fra deruguleringen i 1988, til privatiseringen i
> 1993 skete der en voldsom vækst i markedsandelen for
> jernbanetransport.
>
> Og side 39:
>
> "1994 to 1997 - Post Privatisation
>
> This period was notable for 2 events; market share stopped falling
> for the first time in 10 years and in real terms revenue grew, again
> for the first time in 10 years.
> "
>
> og
>
> "Overall it seems the period was one of stability compared to the
> market upheaval of previous periods; with markets steadily getting
> more competitive at the fringes. It seems that Tranz Rail have
> found their areas (market segments) of competitive advantage and
> are managing them very efficiently. The only issue is that of
> longer-term sustainability as unit revenues decline and margins are
> eroded as more of their costs become fixed. Customers have
> continued to place pressure on Rail for price/quality trade-offs and
> the competition inside the distribution business and outside their
> other nominated segments is quite intense.
> "
>
> Læs også tabellen side 42.
>
>
> Indtjening fra jernbanerne, side 43:
>
> "Until 1994 the long term trend in real output prices had been in
> sympathy with the decline in output volumes, they both fell, but
> unlike the growth in volume since then, unit revenues have
> continued to fall albeit at a slower rate. "
>
> og side 44:
>
> "Compared to rail passenger performance, InterIslander passenger
> business is a real success story. Passenger numbers increased from
> 966,000 in 1994 to 1,085,000 in 1997 while revenues show
> particularly strong growth from 1995. In the summer of 1994/95
> Tranz Rail introduced a fast ferry service across Cook Strait to cater
> for passengers that want a shorter travel time and who are prepared
> to pay a price premium for it. For part of that summer season and
> the following summer two operators competed with Tranz Rail in
> the fast ferry portion of the InterIsland business but both failed to
> survive. Competition for passenger non-vehicle transport exists
> from Plimmerton. "
>
>
> Læs opsummeringen side 45.

Peter, de gik fallit, staten måtte opkøbe det hele igen, og da viste det sig
at en endog megen stor del af banelegemet og af lokomotiver og vogne var i
meget dårlig stand.

--
Allan Riise

---

Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:

> "Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> > Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
> >
> >>>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til
> >>>> hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New
> >>>> Zealand.
> >>>
> >>> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
> >>> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev vedligeholdt
> >>> bedre efter at staten gav op.
> >>
> >> Dokumentation tak!
> >
> > http://www.treasury.govt.nz/workingpapers/1999/twp99-10-1.pdf
> >
> > Side 36, dr viser at fra deruguleringen i 1988, til privatiseringen i
> > 1993 skete der en voldsom vækst i markedsandelen for
> > jernbanetransport.
> >
> > Og side 39:
> >
> > "1994 to 1997 - Post Privatisation
> >
> > This period was notable for 2 events; market share stopped falling
> > for the first time in 10 years and in real terms revenue grew, again
> > for the first time in 10 years.
> > "
> >
> > og
> >
> > "Overall it seems the period was one of stability compared to the
> > market upheaval of previous periods; with markets steadily getting
> > more competitive at the fringes. It seems that Tranz Rail have
> > found their areas (market segments) of competitive advantage and
> > are managing them very efficiently. The only issue is that of
> > longer-term sustainability as unit revenues decline and margins are
> > eroded as more of their costs become fixed. Customers have
> > continued to place pressure on Rail for price/quality trade-offs and
> > the competition inside the distribution business and outside their
> > other nominated segments is quite intense.
> > "
> >
> > Læs også tabellen side 42.
> >
> >
> > Indtjening fra jernbanerne, side 43:
> >
> > "Until 1994 the long term trend in real output prices had been in
> > sympathy with the decline in output volumes, they both fell, but
> > unlike the growth in volume since then, unit revenues have
> > continued to fall albeit at a slower rate. "
> >
> > og side 44:
> >
> > "Compared to rail passenger performance, InterIslander passenger
> > business is a real success story. Passenger numbers increased from
> > 966,000 in 1994 to 1,085,000 in 1997 while revenues show
> > particularly strong growth from 1995. In the summer of 1994/95
> > Tranz Rail introduced a fast ferry service across Cook Strait to cater
> > for passengers that want a shorter travel time and who are prepared
> > to pay a price premium for it. For part of that summer season and
> > the following summer two operators competed with Tranz Rail in
> > the fast ferry portion of the InterIsland business but both failed to
> > survive. Competition for passenger non-vehicle transport exists
> > from Plimmerton. "
> >
> >
> > Læs opsummeringen side 45.
>
> Peter, de gik fallit, staten måtte opkøbe det hele igen, og da viste det sig
> at en endog megen stor del af banelegemet og af lokomotiver og vogne var i
> meget dårlig stand.
>
> --
> Allan Riise

1) Det ændrer ikke på at privatiseringen og dereguleringen i første
omgang var en succes.

2) Af hvilken årsag gik de fallit?


--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

"Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
>>> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise
>>>>>> til hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i
>>>>>> New Zealand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
>>>>> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev
>>>>> vedligeholdt bedre efter at staten gav op.
>>>>
>>>> Dokumentation tak!
>>>
>>> http://www.treasury.govt.nz/workingpapers/1999/twp99-10-1.pdf
>>>
>>> Side 36, dr viser at fra deruguleringen i 1988, til privatiseringen
>>> i 1993 skete der en voldsom vækst i markedsandelen for
>>> jernbanetransport.
>>>
>>> Og side 39:
>>>
>>> "1994 to 1997 - Post Privatisation
>>>
>>> This period was notable for 2 events; market share stopped falling
>>> for the first time in 10 years and in real terms revenue grew, again
>>> for the first time in 10 years.
>>> "
>>>
>>> og
>>>
>>> "Overall it seems the period was one of stability compared to the
>>> market upheaval of previous periods; with markets steadily getting
>>> more competitive at the fringes. It seems that Tranz Rail have
>>> found their areas (market segments) of competitive advantage and
>>> are managing them very efficiently. The only issue is that of
>>> longer-term sustainability as unit revenues decline and margins are
>>> eroded as more of their costs become fixed. Customers have
>>> continued to place pressure on Rail for price/quality trade-offs and
>>> the competition inside the distribution business and outside their
>>> other nominated segments is quite intense.
>>> "
>>>
>>> Læs også tabellen side 42.
>>>
>>>
>>> Indtjening fra jernbanerne, side 43:
>>>
>>> "Until 1994 the long term trend in real output prices had been in
>>> sympathy with the decline in output volumes, they both fell, but
>>> unlike the growth in volume since then, unit revenues have
>>> continued to fall albeit at a slower rate. "
>>>
>>> og side 44:
>>>
>>> "Compared to rail passenger performance, InterIslander passenger
>>> business is a real success story. Passenger numbers increased from
>>> 966,000 in 1994 to 1,085,000 in 1997 while revenues show
>>> particularly strong growth from 1995. In the summer of 1994/95
>>> Tranz Rail introduced a fast ferry service across Cook Strait to
>>> cater for passengers that want a shorter travel time and who are
>>> prepared to pay a price premium for it. For part of that summer
>>> season and the following summer two operators competed with Tranz
>>> Rail in
>>> the fast ferry portion of the InterIsland business but both failed
>>> to survive. Competition for passenger non-vehicle transport exists
>>> from Plimmerton. "
>>>
>>>
>>> Læs opsummeringen side 45.
>>
>> Peter, de gik fallit, staten måtte opkøbe det hele igen, og da viste
>> det sig at en endog megen stor del af banelegemet og af lokomotiver
>> og vogne var i meget dårlig stand.
>>
>> --
>> Allan Riise
>
> 1) Det ændrer ikke på at privatiseringen og dereguleringen i første
> omgang var en succes.

Hvorfor tror du at det var det, når det man gjorde var at nedlægge ruter,
undlod at vedligeholde og ikke gjorde nogen som helst investeringer.
Det svarer til at bo meget billigt i sit hus, ved at undlade at betale sine
terminer.

> 2) Af hvilken årsag gik de fallit?

Se ovenfor, de ødelagde det for dem selv ved ikke at investere og
vedligeholde.

--
Allan Riise

---

Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:

> "Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> > Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
> >
> >> "Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> >>> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise
> >>>>>> til hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i
> >>>>>> New Zealand.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
> >>>>> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev
> >>>>> vedligeholdt bedre efter at staten gav op.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dokumentation tak!
> >>>
> >>> http://www.treasury.govt.nz/workingpapers/1999/twp99-10-1.pdf
> >>>
> >>> Side 36, dr viser at fra deruguleringen i 1988, til privatiseringen
> >>> i 1993 skete der en voldsom vækst i markedsandelen for
> >>> jernbanetransport.
> >>>
> >>> Og side 39:
> >>>
> >>> "1994 to 1997 - Post Privatisation
> >>>
> >>> This period was notable for 2 events; market share stopped falling
> >>> for the first time in 10 years and in real terms revenue grew, again
> >>> for the first time in 10 years.
> >>> "
> >>>
> >>> og
> >>>
> >>> "Overall it seems the period was one of stability compared to the
> >>> market upheaval of previous periods; with markets steadily getting
> >>> more competitive at the fringes. It seems that Tranz Rail have
> >>> found their areas (market segments) of competitive advantage and
> >>> are managing them very efficiently. The only issue is that of
> >>> longer-term sustainability as unit revenues decline and margins are
> >>> eroded as more of their costs become fixed. Customers have
> >>> continued to place pressure on Rail for price/quality trade-offs and
> >>> the competition inside the distribution business and outside their
> >>> other nominated segments is quite intense.
> >>> "
> >>>
> >>> Læs også tabellen side 42.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Indtjening fra jernbanerne, side 43:
> >>>
> >>> "Until 1994 the long term trend in real output prices had been in
> >>> sympathy with the decline in output volumes, they both fell, but
> >>> unlike the growth in volume since then, unit revenues have
> >>> continued to fall albeit at a slower rate. "
> >>>
> >>> og side 44:
> >>>
> >>> "Compared to rail passenger performance, InterIslander passenger
> >>> business is a real success story. Passenger numbers increased from
> >>> 966,000 in 1994 to 1,085,000 in 1997 while revenues show
> >>> particularly strong growth from 1995. In the summer of 1994/95
> >>> Tranz Rail introduced a fast ferry service across Cook Strait to
> >>> cater for passengers that want a shorter travel time and who are
> >>> prepared to pay a price premium for it. For part of that summer
> >>> season and the following summer two operators competed with Tranz
> >>> Rail in
> >>> the fast ferry portion of the InterIsland business but both failed
> >>> to survive. Competition for passenger non-vehicle transport exists
> >>> from Plimmerton. "
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Læs opsummeringen side 45.
> >>
> >> Peter, de gik fallit, staten måtte opkøbe det hele igen, og da viste
> >> det sig at en endog megen stor del af banelegemet og af lokomotiver
> >> og vogne var i meget dårlig stand.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Allan Riise
> >
> > 1) Det ændrer ikke på at privatiseringen og dereguleringen i første
> > omgang var en succes.
>
> Hvorfor tror du at det var det, når det man gjorde var at nedlægge ruter,

Tranz Rail nedlagde de urentable ruter, hvilket er en økonomisk
fornuftig beslutning.


> undlod at vedligeholde

Korrekt, det er ikke så smart.

> og ikke gjorde nogen som helst investeringer.

Investeringer i hvilken forstand?

> Det svarer til at bo meget billigt i sit hus, ved at undlade at betale sine
> terminer.
>
> > 2) Af hvilken årsag gik de fallit?
>
> Se ovenfor, de ødelagde det for dem selv ved ikke at investere og
> vedligeholde.

Det fører altså kun til fallit hvor togene kører af sporene. Gjorde de
det?

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1hir0oj.17pa39skx6s9bN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
>> > Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
>> >>> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise
>> >>>>>> til hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i
>> >>>>>> New Zealand.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
>> >>>>> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev
>> >>>>> vedligeholdt bedre efter at staten gav op.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dokumentation tak!
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.treasury.govt.nz/workingpapers/1999/twp99-10-1.pdf
>> >>>
>> >>> Side 36, dr viser at fra deruguleringen i 1988, til privatiseringen
>> >>> i 1993 skete der en voldsom vækst i markedsandelen for
>> >>> jernbanetransport.
>> >>>
>> >>> Og side 39:
>> >>>
>> >>> "1994 to 1997 - Post Privatisation
>> >>>
>> >>> This period was notable for 2 events; market share stopped falling
>> >>> for the first time in 10 years and in real terms revenue grew, again
>> >>> for the first time in 10 years.
>> >>> "
>> >>>
>> >>> og
>> >>>
>> >>> "Overall it seems the period was one of stability compared to the
>> >>> market upheaval of previous periods; with markets steadily getting
>> >>> more competitive at the fringes. It seems that Tranz Rail have
>> >>> found their areas (market segments) of competitive advantage and
>> >>> are managing them very efficiently. The only issue is that of
>> >>> longer-term sustainability as unit revenues decline and margins are
>> >>> eroded as more of their costs become fixed. Customers have
>> >>> continued to place pressure on Rail for price/quality trade-offs and
>> >>> the competition inside the distribution business and outside their
>> >>> other nominated segments is quite intense.
>> >>> "
>> >>>
>> >>> Læs også tabellen side 42.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Indtjening fra jernbanerne, side 43:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Until 1994 the long term trend in real output prices had been in
>> >>> sympathy with the decline in output volumes, they both fell, but
>> >>> unlike the growth in volume since then, unit revenues have
>> >>> continued to fall albeit at a slower rate. "
>> >>>
>> >>> og side 44:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Compared to rail passenger performance, InterIslander passenger
>> >>> business is a real success story. Passenger numbers increased from
>> >>> 966,000 in 1994 to 1,085,000 in 1997 while revenues show
>> >>> particularly strong growth from 1995. In the summer of 1994/95
>> >>> Tranz Rail introduced a fast ferry service across Cook Strait to
>> >>> cater for passengers that want a shorter travel time and who are
>> >>> prepared to pay a price premium for it. For part of that summer
>> >>> season and the following summer two operators competed with Tranz
>> >>> Rail in
>> >>> the fast ferry portion of the InterIsland business but both failed
>> >>> to survive. Competition for passenger non-vehicle transport exists
>> >>> from Plimmerton. "
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Læs opsummeringen side 45.
>> >>
>> >> Peter, de gik fallit, staten måtte opkøbe det hele igen, og da viste
>> >> det sig at en endog megen stor del af banelegemet og af lokomotiver
>> >> og vogne var i meget dårlig stand.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Allan Riise
>> >
>> > 1) Det ændrer ikke på at privatiseringen og dereguleringen i første
>> > omgang var en succes.
>>
>> Hvorfor tror du at det var det, når det man gjorde var at nedlægge ruter,
>
> Tranz Rail nedlagde de urentable ruter, hvilket er en økonomisk
> fornuftig beslutning.
>
>
>> undlod at vedligeholde
>
> Korrekt, det er ikke så smart.
>
>> og ikke gjorde nogen som helst investeringer.
>
> Investeringer i hvilken forstand?
>
>> Det svarer til at bo meget billigt i sit hus, ved at undlade at betale
>> sine
>> terminer.
>>
>> > 2) Af hvilken årsag gik de fallit?
>>
>> Se ovenfor, de ødelagde det for dem selv ved ikke at investere og
>> vedligeholde.
>
> Det fører altså kun til fallit hvor togene kører af sporene. Gjorde de
> det?

Perlsø, jeg har set de samme oplysninger som Allan har og de er helt
korrekte. Nogle gange kan det bedst betale sig bare at indrømme at man har
kvajet sig og klappe i. Jeg vil resten af ugen formentlig ikke være i stand
til at underholde dig og resten af slænget her men jeg vender stærkt tilbage
om nogle få dage og tager bolden op hvor den måtte befinde sig. Derfor er
dette sidste indlæg fra mig i nogle dage og jeg ser ikke indlæg i dk.politik
(samt resten af Usenet) før om nogle dage, derfor ingen besvarelser fra min
side på noget som helst indtil da.

--
Kim Larsen

Socialist, republikaner, EU-tilhænger og atomkraftmodstander.
Socialisme er den eneste troværdige vej frem.
Husk at krigen i Irak er folkeretligt smask-ulovlig.

Direkte e-mail: kla2(a)get2net.dk

---

"Kim Larsen" <kla2(a)get2net.dk> wrote:

> Nogle gange kan det bedst betale sig bare at indrømme at man har
> kvajet sig og klappe i.

Betyder det at du vil indrømme at hårdere beskatning af højere
indkomster, samt fjernelse af bundfradraget for lave indkomster er
skadeligt? Eller skal jeg tage din kommende stilhed som en erkendelse af
at du har kvajet dig?

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

Peter Bjørn Perlsø wrote:
> "Kim Larsen" <kla2(a)get2net.dk> wrote:
>
>> Nogle gange kan det bedst betale sig bare at indrømme at man har
>> kvajet sig og klappe i.
>
> Betyder det at du vil indrømme at hårdere beskatning af højere
> indkomster, samt fjernelse af bundfradraget for lave indkomster er
> skadeligt?
>
Ja, det er naturligcvis skadeligt, men et sted skal pengene komme fra.

---

"Peter Bjørn Perlsø" wrote:
> Allan Riise <ari06@pc.dk> wrote:
>> Ja, jeg har før advaret imod at privatisere DSB ved at henvise til
>> hvad der skete i New Zealand, men uha nej, det går så godt i New
>> Zealand.
>
> Ja, det gjorde det da private blev sat til at varetage fx. den New
> Zealandske jernbane, som pludselig gav overskud og blev vedligeholdt
> bedre efter at staten gav op.

Ahemmm..

"
The railways were administered by the New Zealand Railways Department, with
the Minister of Railways being a member of Cabinet. In 1981, the Railways
Department was corporatised into a state-owned enterprise, the New Zealand
Railways Corporation. In 1990, the core rail operations of the Corporation
were devolved to New Zealand Rail Limited, with the Corporation retaining
non-core assets. New Zealand Rail Limited was privatised in 1993, with the
new owners adopting the name Tranz Rail in 1995.

During the period of private ownership of the network, Tranz Rail was widely
accused of diverting freight to its trucks and forcing other freight off the
rails. It was also accused of deliberately running down some lines through
lack of maintenance. The Midland Line, which mostly carries coal from the
West Coast to Lyttelton, was assessed to be in a safe but poor state by the
LTSA government safety body in 2003, and has needed major repairs. One of
the reasons often cited for these policies was the subsidies given to road
transport that were not available to rail operators. Tranz Rail was also
alleged to have denied reasonable access to the rail network by heritage
operators, who were faced with a lack of access to certification resources
and high charges that made their operations marginally economic at best. In
recent years heritage groups have also faced increased bureacratic
requirements in the arena of safety certification, as well as problems
obtaining suitable public liability insurance.

In 2002 shares in Tranz Rail dropped to a record low price as a result of
its poor financial state. The government then considered various schemes for
bailing it out in return for regaining control of the rail tracks. Cited
reasons included moving freight traffic from road to rail and ensuring
access to the tracks for all interested parties. In the event, Toll Holdings
of Australia made a successful takeover bid for Tranz Rail, subject to an
agreement to sell back the rail tracks to the government. The government has
since invested some $200 million via a revived New Zealand Railways
Corporation, now trading as ONTRACK."

--
Allan Riise

---

"Allan Riise" <ari06@pc.dk> skrev i en meddelelse news:44bea337$0$2099$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

> During the period of private ownership of the network, Tranz Rail was widely accused of diverting freight to its trucks and
> forcing other freight off the rails. It was also accused of deliberately running down some lines through lack of maintenance.

Det leder tankerne hen på USA med http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
The General Motors streetcar conspiracy refers to a contention that General Motors (GM),
acting in conjunction with several other companies and through the National City Lines (NCL)
holding company, illegally acquired many streetcar systems in various cities around the United States,
dismantled and replaced them with buses for the express purpose of promoting the automobile.

> In 2002 shares in Tranz Rail dropped to a record low price as a result of its poor financial state. The government then considered
> various schemes for bailing it out in return for regaining control of the rail tracks. Cited reasons included moving freight
> traffic from road to rail and ensuring access to the tracks for all interested parties. In the event, Toll Holdings of Australia
> made a successful takeover bid for Tranz Rail, subject to an agreement to sell back the rail tracks to the government. The
> government has since invested some $200 million via a revived New Zealand Railways Corporation,

>now trading as ONTRACK."

Den var kinky,, BACK ONTRACK

Jan Rasmussen

---

"Jan Rasmussen" <1@2.3> skrev i en meddelelse
news:44bea79a$0$84031$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
> "Allan Riise" <ari06@pc.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:44bea337$0$2099$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
>> During the period of private ownership of the network, Tranz Rail was
>> widely accused of diverting freight to its trucks and forcing other
>> freight off the rails. It was also accused of deliberately running down
>> some lines through lack of maintenance.
>
> Det leder tankerne hen på USA med
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
> The General Motors streetcar conspiracy refers to a contention that
> General Motors (GM),
> acting in conjunction with several other companies and through the
> National City Lines (NCL)
> holding company, illegally acquired many streetcar systems in various
> cities around the United States,
> dismantled and replaced them with buses for the express purpose of
> promoting the automobile.
>
>> In 2002 shares in Tranz Rail dropped to a record low price as a result of
>> its poor financial state. The government then considered various schemes
>> for bailing it out in return for regaining control of the rail tracks.
>> Cited reasons included moving freight traffic from road to rail and
>> ensuring access to the tracks for all interested parties. In the event,
>> Toll Holdings of Australia made a successful takeover bid for Tranz Rail,
>> subject to an agreement to sell back the rail tracks to the government.
>> The government has since invested some $200 million via a revived New
>> Zealand Railways Corporation,
>
>>now trading as ONTRACK."
>
> Den var kinky,, BACK ONTRACK
>
> Jan Rasmussen
>

Og nu viser det sig at ham der driver Wikipedia, udtaler at den er fyldt med
løgn og latin og at man ikke skal tro et ord af hvad der står, da den bliver
brugt useriøst.

Svend

---

Svend Poulsen <svend_poulsen_304@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Og nu viser det sig at ham der driver Wikipedia, udtaler at den er fyldt med
> løgn og latin og at man ikke skal tro et ord af hvad der står, da den bliver
> brugt useriøst.
>
> Svend

Wikipedia ER blevet anklaget for at ofte have et vesntreorienteret
"slant" på sine artikler, men det betyder ikke at jeg automatisk afviser
hvad de har at sige. Jeg synes generelt at Wikipedia er en fremragende
informationskilde, og jeg har tilbragt mange søvnløse nætter med at læse
igennem den informationsrigdom, som WIkiP. huser.

Allan Riise har ret i at det omtalte NZ-jernbaneselskab gik fallit, og
at dette som oftest er en Dårligt Ting (tm), men der kan være flere
grunde til at dette skete. Jeg afviser dog ikke at det kan være firmaets
egen skyld - private virksomheer laver også fejl, og er langt fra
perfekte, se blot Enron (USA).

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

"Kim Larsen" <kla2(a)get2net.dk> wrote:


>
>
> Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige overfald og
> besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde cirkuset i gang.

Du taler som du har forstand. USA har over 7 trillions US$ gæld, hvoraf
kun ca 250 milliarder = 0,25 trillion skyldes Irak-krigen.

>
> > Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
> > dem i Danmark?
>
> Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne grise
> hvis det sker.

Det bliver sjovt at se velfærdsnarkomanerne og venstrefløjens doogooders
pive når alle de talentfulde og rige flygter fra USA og dermed holder op
med at finanisere endnu et velfærdscirkus ala det skandinaviske.

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse news:1hiqlfr.9zkmv48fncsbN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...

> Det bliver sjovt at se velfærdsnarkomanerne og venstrefløjens doogooders
> pive når alle de talentfulde og rige flygter fra USA og dermed holder op
> med at finanisere endnu et velfærdscirkus ala det skandinaviske.

De rige har da allerede droppet dollar'en. og købt Euro, ædle metaller,
eller naturressourcer.

Bill Gates, World's Richest Man, Bets Against Dollar
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aO.Rl7JwFWy8&refer=news_index
Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Bill Gates, whose net worth of $46.6 billion makes him the world's richest
person, is betting against the U.S. dollar. ``I'm short the dollar,'' Gates, chairman of Microsoft Corp.,
told Charlie Rose in an interview late yesterday at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
``The ol' dollar, it's gonna go down.''

Kina er forberedt.

It's time to take seriously a US-led global recession Lau Nai-keung
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-10/06/content_482807.htm
Put it simply, the Americans have been living way beyond their means for much too long.
On top of this, the Bush Administration is cutting tax at least three times while fighting an
expensive war in Iraq, which has already cost the country US$700 billion, and currently
progressing at US$5.6 billion per month. Now the US economy is dependent on the central
banks of Japan, China and other nations to invest in US Treasuries and keep American interest
rates down. The low rates keep American consumers snapping up imported goods.


Jan Rasmussen

---

Jan Rasmussen <1@2.3> wrote:

> ""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:1hiqlfr.9zkmv48fncsbN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
>
> > Det bliver sjovt at se velfærdsnarkomanerne og venstrefløjens doogooders
> > pive når alle de talentfulde og rige flygter fra USA og dermed holder op
> > med at finanisere endnu et velfærdscirkus ala det skandinaviske.
>
> De rige har da allerede droppet dollar'en. og købt Euro, ædle metaller,
> eller naturressourcer.

Ja, men jeg taler om den hjerneflugt USA vil opbleve hvis usympatiske
typer son Kim larsen får lov til a diktere skattepolitikken derovre.

-- regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk "The politicians
don't just want your money. They want your soul. They want you to be
worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless." - James Dale
Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:20:09 +0200, "Kim Larsen" <kla2(a)get2net.dk>
wrote:

>"Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
>news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
>> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>>
>> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at stoppe
>> den negative økonomiske udvikling.

>Tjaeh, hvad skal man sige, det er dyrt at starte smask-ulovlige overfald og
>besættelser af andre suveræne nationer og holde cirkuset i gang.

det er sgu et af de mindre problemer

et større problem er at de importerer på livet løs samtidig med at
arbejdsløsheden stiger

USA bliver hurtigt nødt til at skære ned på forbruget af importeret
energi(olie)
og også skære ned i importen af billige produkter fra Kina og hele
østasien, for at få gang i egne "hjul" igen


>> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
>> dem i Danmark?

nej men en stagnation eller direkte nedgang i USA's import vil
desværre få negative konsekvenser også for danmrks økonomi


>Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne grise
>hvis det sker.

pive over hvad?

at USA skal i gang med at føre en ansvarlig energipolitik og økonomisk
politik



--
Blasfemilove bør afskaffes. Det ville være en sær gud,
som har behov for at blive beskyttet af loven
/Salman Rushdie/

---

"Kim Larsen" <kla2(a)get2net.dk> wrote in message
news:44be4da8$0$15793$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> "Peter Ole Kvint" <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:483bd$44be47b1$55dab8ab$5723@news.galnet.dk...
>> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>> Mon ikke at man snart i USA får 25% moms og personstatter, som svare til
>> dem i Danmark?
>
> Ikke usandsynligt. Det bliver sjovt at se højrefløjen pive som stukne
> grise hvis det sker.

Nu har marxister i 150 år grædt over at deres dystre forudsigelser om
"sultens slavehær" og at "medarbejderne" kun har "lænkerne at tabe" - OG at
kapitalismens system ville styrte sammen og vise hvor vidunderligt
planøkonomien virker ikke holdt stik. Intet af det har vist sig at være
rigtigt, - men I sidder naturligvis stadig og håber på at "et eller andet
vil vise sig".

Og det vil det da også, vi mennesker er blevet for mange og vi er for
effektive, det har bare intet som helst med socialisme vs markedsøkonomi at
gøre, - andet end at socialismen kan producere en femtedel af goderne med
dobbelt så meget økologisk svineri.

---

Peter Ole Kvint <haabet2003@yahoo.dk> wrote:

> /ritzau/ - 15:08 - 19. jul. 2006
>
> Staten USA går snart bankerot, og der skal kraftige indgreb til at
> stoppe den negative økonomiske udvikling.
>
> Det mener den amerikanske professor i nationaløkonomi, Laurence
> Kotlikoff fra universitetet i Boston.
>
> I en artikel, der er publiceret i Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
> Reviews sommernummer for juli og august, kritiserer Kotlikoff
> Bush-regeringen, og advarer om, at USA's økonomi er i en kritisk tilstand.
>
> Økonomiprofessoren forudser, at det snart bliver nødvendigt med
> drastiske skatteforhøjelser eller reduktion af velfærdsprogrammerne med
> to tredjedele for at løse problemerne.
>
> Det er USA's evne til at finansiere fremtidige generationer, som
> Laurence Kotlikoff sætter et stort spørgsmålstegn ved.
>
> Professoren mener endda, at USA allerede er bankerot i ordets egentlige
> betydning. USA er nemlig ifølge Kotlikoff udpumpet, insolvent, snart
> udtømt for ressourcer samt ikke længere i stand til at betale sin gæld.

USA er ikek i problemer, men det komemr de, hvis de ikek får gælden
betalt af.

Dette kan nemt gøres ved dels at skære i deres velfærdsprogrammer (her
tiltænkes SOcial Security), dels at sælge de enorme landområder, som er
trillions of dollars værd.

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

Peter Bjørn Perlsø skrev i meddelelsen
<1hiqldx.1yea1eu1i4ectnN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk>...

>Dette kan nemt gøres ved dels at skære i deres velfærdsprogrammer (her
>tiltænkes SOcial Security)

Det vil nok føre til væbnet opstand - Social Security er et
forsikringssystem, hvor
lønmodtagerne selv har indbetalt penge til en stor fond for at have en
alderspension.

--------------------------------------
Carl Alex Friis Nielsen

Love Me - take me as I think I am

---

Carl Alex Friis Nielsen <cafn@get2net.dk> wrote:

> Peter Bjørn Perlsø skrev i meddelelsen
> <1hiqldx.1yea1eu1i4ectnN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk>...
>
> >Dette kan nemt gøres ved dels at skære i deres velfærdsprogrammer (her
> >tiltænkes SOcial Security)
>
> Det vil nok føre til væbnet opstand - Social Security er et
> forsikringssystem, hvor
> lønmodtagerne selv har indbetalt penge til en stor fond for at have en
> alderspension.

Jeg tror vi taler om to forskellige ting så, for den Social Security jeg
taler om er det der svarer til den danske Folkepension, som i højeste
grad er indkomstskattefinansieret.

--
regards, Peter B. Perlsø - liberterran.org, siad.dk
"The politicians don't just want your money. They want your soul. They
want you to be worn down by taxes until you are dependent and helpless."
- James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

---

""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse news:1hiqpx9.e0rxom1e9o6x4N%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...

> Jeg tror vi taler om to forskellige ting så, for den Social Security jeg
> taler om er det der svarer til den danske Folkepension, som i højeste
> grad er indkomstskattefinansieret.

Det er også sådan jeg læser wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)
Social Security in the United States is a social insurance program funded
through a dedicated payroll tax. It is formally known as the Federal Old-Age
and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust
Fund program (OASDI), in reference to its three components (OA for retirement,
S for widows and survivors income, D for disability income).
When initially signed into law by FDR in 1935, the term Social Security covered
unemployment insurance as well, but now the term is used in America to mean only
the three benefits for retirement, disability and death which are the three main benefits
provided by traditional private sector pension plans that still exist. References to SSI
are now generally regarded as erroneous. In the calendar year 2004, it paid out almost
$500 billion in benefits. [1] By dollars paid the U.S. Social Security program is the largest
government program in the world. The Social Security Administration is headquartered
in Baltimore, Maryland. In 2005, the possibility of changing the Social Security system
became a major political issue;

see Social Security debate (United States).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_%28United_States%29
President George W. Bush has called for a transition to partial privatization via
individual accounts ("personal accounts" or "private accounts") that could be
invested in the stock market. Since the Report of the 1994-1996 Advisory
Council on Social Security, the Social Security program has been the subject
of widespread debate. After President Bush highlighted the issue in his 2005
State of the Union Address, the debate became especially intense. Note that while
Bush is a strong proponent of the individual account approach it did not originate with him.

No candidate for major office from any political party has suggested that Social Security
simply be eliminated, or overhauled without regard to the impact on the financial expectations
of current or near-future recipients of Social Security benefits. Nevertheless, many of the proposals
being debated could fundamentally change the system and there are non-candidates on the far right
who have been forthright in saying that they desire to end the program.



Jan Rasmussen

---

"Jan Rasmussen" <1@2.3> skrev i en meddelelse
news:44be8b5d$0$84031$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
> ""Peter Bjørn Perlsø"" <peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:1hiqpx9.e0rxom1e9o6x4N%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk...
>
>> Jeg tror vi taler om to forskellige ting så, for den Social Security jeg
>> taler om er det der svarer til den danske Folkepension, som i højeste
>> grad er indkomstskattefinansieret.
>
> Det er også sådan jeg læser wikipedia.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)
> Social Security in the United States is a social insurance program funded
> through a dedicated payroll tax. It is formally known as the Federal
> Old-Age
> and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance
> Trust
> Fund program (OASDI), in reference to its three components (OA for
> retirement,
> S for widows and survivors income, D for disability income).
> When initially signed into law by FDR in 1935, the term Social Security
> covered
> unemployment insurance as well, but now the term is used in America to
> mean only
> the three benefits for retirement, disability and death which are the
> three main benefits
> provided by traditional private sector pension plans that still exist.
> References to SSI
> are now generally regarded as erroneous. In the calendar year 2004, it
> paid out almost
> $500 billion in benefits. [1] By dollars paid the U.S. Social Security
> program is the largest
> government program in the world. The Social Security Administration is
> headquartered
> in Baltimore, Maryland. In 2005, the possibility of changing the Social
> Security system
> became a major political issue;
>
> see Social Security debate (United States).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_%28United_States%29
> President George W. Bush has called for a transition to partial
> privatization via
> individual accounts ("personal accounts" or "private accounts") that could
> be
> invested in the stock market. Since the Report of the 1994-1996 Advisory
> Council on Social Security, the Social Security program has been the
> subject
> of widespread debate. After President Bush highlighted the issue in his
> 2005
> State of the Union Address, the debate became especially intense. Note
> that while
> Bush is a strong proponent of the individual account approach it did not
> originate with him.
>
> No candidate for major office from any political party has suggested that
> Social Security
> simply be eliminated, or overhauled without regard to the impact on the
> financial expectations
> of current or near-future recipients of Social Security benefits.
> Nevertheless, many of the proposals
> being debated could fundamentally change the system and there are
> non-candidates on the far right
> who have been forthright in saying that they desire to end the program.
>
>
>
> Jan Rasmussen

Og så er der lige det at den der driver wikipedia udtaler at den er højest
useriøs, da den fyldes med løgne af dem der har deres egen agenda.

Svend

---

Peter Bjørn Perlsø skrev i meddelelsen
<1hiqpx9.e0rxom1e9o6x4N%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk>...
>Carl Alex Friis Nielsen <cafn@get2net.dk> wrote:
>
>> Peter Bjørn Perlsø skrev i meddelelsen
>> <1hiqldx.1yea1eu1i4ectnN%peter@DIESPAMMERDIE.dk>...
>>
>> >Dette kan nemt gøres ved dels at skære i deres velfærdsprogrammer (her
>> >tiltænkes SOcial Security)
>>
>> Det vil nok føre til væbnet opstand - Social Security er et
>> forsikringssystem, hvor
>> lønmodtagerne selv har indbetalt penge til en stor fond for at have en
>> alderspension.
>
>Jeg tror vi taler om to forskellige ting så, for den Social Security jeg
>taler om er det der svarer til den danske Folkepension, som i højeste
>grad er indkomstskattefinansieret.

Nej - det svarer til ATP.

Den danske folkepension financiers over det generelle statsbudget.

Det USAmerikanske Social Security financieres via obligatoriske
indbetalinger til en stor fond - at man så kalder det en skat ændrer
ikke på at det ikke er en skat i normal dansk forstand på samme måde
som vores ATP bidrag ikke er en skat.

Den USAmerikanske stat har så gennem tiderne haft problemer med
at holde "nallerne" fra alle disse mange penge og har på perfid vis
misbrugt disse midler til at financiere diverses huller i statsbudgettet,
så fondens midler er blevet bundet i forskellige slags statsobligationer
i stedet for at være investeret i noget med et fornuftigt afkast.

Lidt ligsom da vores stat stjal midlerne fra den sociale pensionsfond
har den USAmerikanse stat stjålet midler fra Social Security fonden,
eller som når TDC vil have lov til at "låne" pengene fra medarbejdernes
pensionsfonde.

Det er dette tyveri som er årsagen til Social Securitys problemer.

De USAmerikanske lønmodtagere har specifikt gennem deres indbetalinger
optjent retten til pension.

læs mere på
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)

--------------------------------------
Carl Alex Friis Nielsen

Love Me - take me as I think I am