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Hvaså SW, det kører jo for BUGWorks. :O)
Fra : Peter Andersen


Dato : 18-06-01 20:54

Nedenstående indlæg fra "SW" tilbage i februar falmer sgu noget efterhånden


-snip-
From: "SW" <thhvejen@vejen-net.dk>
Newsgroups: dk.edb.cad

I det hele taget er der stadig mange fejl i Inventor, men det bliver da
sikkert et udemærket produkt med tiden
(læs: Når der er solgt nok "betaversioner" til fuld licenspris, som kunderne
kan være med til at fejlfinde på/udvikle)
-snip-


Med latterfyldt hilsen Peter


*****************
Subject: Has SW given up on SW2000...the only stable product they have?
From: "The Pixley's" <pixley@nh.ultranet.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Where are the SP's to fix the few remaining issues that exist in SW2000. I
have decided not to migrate to SW2001 for a long, long time as this product
could kill my company if it is as much of a problem as I have heard.

**********
Subject: Re: Has SW given up on SW2000...the only stable product they have?
From: Sporkman <MUNGEsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

FEW remaining problems? Your experience is apparently better than
mine. This is one of my major beefs with the company. Once a new
release comes out they completely abandon any bug fixes on the previous
release. And the current release is, as you can see from many other
posts, VERY problematic for some considerable number of users. People
can say what they want about hardware and drivers being the cause of
problems with the new release, but it's obvious that a good number of
users who were NOT having problems with SW2000 are now having problems
with 2001. I think the upper management of SolidWorks should be ashamed
of themselves.

*************

Subject: Boycott anyone?
From: Sporkman <GOTCHAsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Who ELSE is pissed off at SolidWorks Corp enough to withold their yearly
maintenance agreement in protest? I could withold three seats (in
August) and probably garner two or three more seats boycotted. Boy I'll
bet if we could get 500 or more seats being boycotted it would make
SolidWorks sit up and take notice!! Could get quite a lot of bad press
also, although I'm not out to HURT the company . . . just make them
think again about their current direction, and make them realize that
it's not only their stockholders that they have to keep happy. We could
probably get them to agree to pass on the $600 late fee as well (only
for the boycotters) as part of our demands. What say, shall we start a
boycott movement and have a Web site to sign up on?

*****************

Subject: Re: Boycott anyone?
From: "msm" <mmossberg@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Spork,

I can maybe get 7 seats. Maybe a whole lot more ( 50+ ) if I can convince
some of our clients to do likewise. I pretty much manage all the seats
myself, but I would still have to convince a few people to withold payment.
The trick would be to be organized. Get everyone together and on the same
page, and then have everyone fire off a formal e-mail statement to SWX
support at the same time. Hell, we're still using SWX2000, and will continue
until they fix 2001 to a point where it becomes usable. I've got a couple of
dual 2000/2001 installations, in case we get 2001 files from our clients,
but no way am I gonna put that flakey, slow, piece of BETA crap, into
production.

Are you listening SWX !!!

We need to be able to do "WORK". We don't need or want any new web gizmos or
gadgets

Regards

Mark

***********
Subject: Re: Boycott anyone?
From: Sporkman <GOTCHAsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Damn straight. Well said. My thoughts exactly. That's the spirit. We need a
manifesto listing complaints and demands, and we need it on a Web page where
people can pledge to boycott, list their companies and the number seats they're
boycotting. Well, so far I'm just having fun with it, but I would absolutely do
it (it's my nickel and I own the company) if we can get some more comments like
below, somebody to write the manifesto and someone to put up a Web page. How
'bout it Paul?

************

Subject: Re: Boycott anyone?
From: Paul Salvador <zaxys@gte.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

I luv boycotts and I'm obviously annoyed with some of the beta ware we
have been sold as software!
Maybe if we could get a list of the stockholders, executives and their
emails then maybe the message could be transmitted globally!?

May be Business Week or SolidSolutions would be interested in this
heading,..
"Global class action considered by SolidWorks subscription users who are
being issued beta ware".

 
 
gvgvf (18-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : gvgvf


Dato : 18-06-01 21:25

Hej Peter

Taler det lange forløbne tidsrum ikke sit eget sprog?
Vi behøver vist ikke rippe op i det mere!

Mvh
Leif

"Peter Andersen" <pa@nospam.dk> wrote in message
news:MPG.15987aa62b1d36b989700@news.inet.tele.dk...
> Nedenstående indlæg fra "SW" tilbage i februar falmer sgu noget
efterhånden
>
>
> -snip-
> From: "SW" <thhvejen@vejen-net.dk>
> Newsgroups: dk.edb.cad
>
> I det hele taget er der stadig mange fejl i Inventor, men det bliver da
> sikkert et udemærket produkt med tiden
> (læs: Når der er solgt nok "betaversioner" til fuld licenspris, som
kunderne
> kan være med til at fejlfinde på/udvikle)
> -snip-
>
>
> Med latterfyldt hilsen Peter
>
>
> *****************
> Subject: Has SW given up on SW2000...the only stable product they have?
> From: "The Pixley's" <pixley@nh.ultranet.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> Where are the SP's to fix the few remaining issues that exist in SW2000.
I
> have decided not to migrate to SW2001 for a long, long time as this
product
> could kill my company if it is as much of a problem as I have heard.
>
> **********
> Subject: Re: Has SW given up on SW2000...the only stable product they
have?
> From: Sporkman <MUNGEsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> FEW remaining problems? Your experience is apparently better than
> mine. This is one of my major beefs with the company. Once a new
> release comes out they completely abandon any bug fixes on the previous
> release. And the current release is, as you can see from many other
> posts, VERY problematic for some considerable number of users. People
> can say what they want about hardware and drivers being the cause of
> problems with the new release, but it's obvious that a good number of
> users who were NOT having problems with SW2000 are now having problems
> with 2001. I think the upper management of SolidWorks should be ashamed
> of themselves.
>
> *************
>
> Subject: Boycott anyone?
> From: Sporkman <GOTCHAsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> Who ELSE is pissed off at SolidWorks Corp enough to withold their yearly
> maintenance agreement in protest? I could withold three seats (in
> August) and probably garner two or three more seats boycotted. Boy I'll
> bet if we could get 500 or more seats being boycotted it would make
> SolidWorks sit up and take notice!! Could get quite a lot of bad press
> also, although I'm not out to HURT the company . . . just make them
> think again about their current direction, and make them realize that
> it's not only their stockholders that they have to keep happy. We could
> probably get them to agree to pass on the $600 late fee as well (only
> for the boycotters) as part of our demands. What say, shall we start a
> boycott movement and have a Web site to sign up on?
>
> *****************
>
> Subject: Re: Boycott anyone?
> From: "msm" <mmossberg@earthlink.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> Spork,
>
> I can maybe get 7 seats. Maybe a whole lot more ( 50+ ) if I can convince
> some of our clients to do likewise. I pretty much manage all the seats
> myself, but I would still have to convince a few people to withold
payment.
> The trick would be to be organized. Get everyone together and on the same
> page, and then have everyone fire off a formal e-mail statement to SWX
> support at the same time. Hell, we're still using SWX2000, and will
continue
> until they fix 2001 to a point where it becomes usable. I've got a couple
of
> dual 2000/2001 installations, in case we get 2001 files from our clients,
> but no way am I gonna put that flakey, slow, piece of BETA crap, into
> production.
>
> Are you listening SWX !!!
>
> We need to be able to do "WORK". We don't need or want any new web gizmos
or
> gadgets
>
> Regards
>
> Mark
>
> ***********
> Subject: Re: Boycott anyone?
> From: Sporkman <GOTCHAsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> Damn straight. Well said. My thoughts exactly. That's the spirit. We
need a
> manifesto listing complaints and demands, and we need it on a Web page
where
> people can pledge to boycott, list their companies and the number seats
they're
> boycotting. Well, so far I'm just having fun with it, but I would
absolutely do
> it (it's my nickel and I own the company) if we can get some more comments
like
> below, somebody to write the manifesto and someone to put up a Web page.
How
> 'bout it Paul?
>
> ************
>
> Subject: Re: Boycott anyone?
> From: Paul Salvador <zaxys@gte.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> I luv boycotts and I'm obviously annoyed with some of the beta ware we
> have been sold as software!
> Maybe if we could get a list of the stockholders, executives and their
> emails then maybe the message could be transmitted globally!?
>
> May be Business Week or SolidSolutions would be interested in this
> heading,..
> "Global class action considered by SolidWorks subscription users who are
> being issued beta ware".



Peter Andersen (22-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : Peter Andersen


Dato : 22-06-01 18:27

> Hej Peter
>
> Taler det lange forløbne tidsrum ikke sit eget sprog?
> Vi behøver vist ikke rippe op i det mere!
>
> Mvh
> Leif
>


Hej, jo det gør det, men jeg kan ikke dy mig for yderligere at besvare
SW's svar til mig d. 24 feb. Så jo jeg vil gerne underbygge mine postulater.
Dette har jeg så gjort nu med nedenstående kopier af debatten fra
comp.cad.solidworks og dertil kan jeg igen sige at jeg IKKE ville vælge
Solidworks hvis jeg var inden for maskinbranchen, og det er nu underbygget.

Hilsen Peter


> From: "SW" <thhvejen@vejen-net.dk>
> Newsgroups: dk.edb.cad
>
> > Jeg vil nok sige at jeg syntes at Solidworks parterne i denne dialog
> > virker fuldstændig afsporet og virklighedsfjerne.
>
> Vil du venligst underbygge dine postulater med saglige argumenter
>
> > Mit indtryk er nu at hvis jeg var maskin-konstruktør, ville jeg nok
> > hellere kigge på Autodesk produkter.
>
> Gør det, og kom tilbage når du har fortrudt (det er der mange andre der har
> gjort)
>
> sw


Dugfriske indlæg fra comp.cad.solidworks, hvor debatten kører løs

***************
Subject: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
From: Sporkman <MUNGEsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

To the management and especially the marketing goofs at SolidWorks
Corp.:

Used to be that there were a number of malcontents posting in this
newsgroup about the lack of Surfacing options in SolidWorks. There were
more than a couple of these sourpusses, but there were also a large
number of regulars who would simply post a question or an answer to a
question, and once in a while would defend SolidWorks Corp from its
detractors. Often a particular rant would be "shouted down" with
accusations that the ranter was either a Pro-E VAR or someone who ought
to go buy Pro-E and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

In case you haven't noticed there has been a marked change in the flavor
of the newsgroup. Now your detractors are the people who used to defend
you. The people who have been using SolidWorks the longest are now the
ones who are the angriest. They're the ones saying that you're
slipping, that you aren't testing your software sufficiently, that
you're cheating your users by charging exhorbitant maintenance fees for
much too little.

Don't you think this deserves some attention?

I'm tempted to tack on a euphemism beginning with "ass" and ending with
"holes", but I'll try to restrain myself.

Sporky
**************
Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
From: "Malcolm B. Stephens" <m.b.stephens@stethour.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Preach it brother!
*****************
Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
From: "Don Jackson" <djackson@airfiber.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

YOU TELLEM' Sporky.

I am one of the people that has been using this software since 1997 and with each new release,
service(?) pack or upgrade, the number of bummers has consistently increased over the years.

My current company, with 11 seats, has been using SWX since its inception in '98. I was and
continue to be the main driver. If this s*%t keeps up there is going to be a serious review of
our 3D software.

I hate to say it but IV is starting to look like a viable choice and I can't stand AutoCrap's
customer support either!

SolidWorks, Inc., you better start paying attention! Joe Dunne, it's time to relay some
information to HQ!

Don Jackson
AirFiber, Inc.
***************
Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
From: "Jay Guthrie" <jguthrie@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

I too am one of the main people reasonable for getting SW in our company. I
am becoming increasing annoyed by the direction I see things starting to go.
SW is becoming too modular and that was one of the things that attracted me
to them in the first place. The Smart Fasteners thing is total BS and is a
insult to anyone who pays subscription service. There is no way in hell we
are going to pay for that. The bugs are driving me nuts!

My faith is weakening.

Jay
***************
Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
From: "Edward T Eaton" <ed'remove_this'eaton1701@home.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

I am reticent to join on the venting bandwagon, but I have to admit that I
am at my wits end (and who knows... maybe it will do something)

I have always hated SW bashing, and I have no use for the 'my software is
better than your software' talk.
I know the folks over at SW are trying really hard to add to the package,
because I have had contact with many of them through multiple forums, and
throughout those contacts I absolutely trusted their sincerity.
A year and a half ago, I took half a day away from my work to talk to a
SolidWorks employee who made a special trip to my workplace to talk to me
about the needs of my perceived specialty (groovy freeform design). He
wanted to see what SW could add to their package to make things better for
Industrial Designers. As I remember, he was taken off guard by my response,
because I did not have a laundry list of extra features and whatnot, as he
expected. Instead, I said the number one thing they needed to do was
implement good product testing, and the number two thing that they needed to
do was develop better training materials that would be available to all.
I personally have been able to use SW to model everything that I can
imagine, but it has come at the cost of having to aggressively develop a
deep list of crazy workarounds, and to explore and identify an elaborate
knowledge of the exceptions to exceptions to exceptions. It has been hard,
and it adds hours to my weeks, but I have been able to somehow miracle every
fillet to work, every sketch to solve, and every loft to fly.
Since this last release, I run into truly awful behavior on the part of the
software on a daily basis. It is not hard to find bugs, and it is really
easy to find poorly thought out interface issues. When I can get around to
it, my accumulated list list of 'still to report' bugs is going to take me
six or seven hours to go through with my VAR (and I do try to pick away at
about an hour of them every few days - just ask them).
The thing that gets me about all of this is that testing should have caught
most of it. Okay, there is always some weird things that they are probably
not going to get right away, but there is no reason that I can think of that
they never found the 'tangent surface model doesn't make a tangent solid'
bug, the 'underdefined sketch shows completely black' bug, the 'distance
mate spin box works when first making the mate but not when editing the
mate' bug, the 'fillets fail with every new service pack' bug, the very
common 'back to the desktop crashes', the 'through all cut arrow won't flip
until you change views when in the preview' bug, the 'can't modify the
properties on a PAW materials because it always jumps back to the default'
bug, etc.etc. etc. (I can actually rail for about an hour on basic stuff
that could have been caught with very rudimentary product testing... I know
this, because I have done just rudimentary work on SW 2001, and I have
isolated and identified hours of them)

The way that I understand SW Corp is set up, they can't do real world
testing. I have suggested here and elsewhere that SW hire a couple of guys
who's sole function is to model stuff (Monday morning :"here - make this
stapler, with all drafts in place on the plastic, make sure all of the
sheetmetal can unfold, and do production quality drains."...), and have been
told that it is simply not an option for SW to direct two salaries at this
task. I even made the pitch that SW would develop a model database that
they could freely use for sales and training, both of which would generate
revenue in addition to helping out the user base. Still not possible.

So, as most of us here know, we general users are earmarked to be the real
product testers. And, due to the way we users have learned to cope with the
situation, the bugs are not going to be found until many months into the
release.

At the last meeting of the Chicago SolidWorks user group, I personally led a
discussion on how members' companies were rolling out SW2001. The telling
thing is that, for the most part, companies have a policy of not adopting SW
until the second or third SP is released.
This is learned behavior. No one can debate this point. VAR's advise it as
a matter of course. It is widely known and accepted that SW releases
software that will not work.
The SW employees who are monitoring this can feel uncomfortable. They can
question my motives (though they shouldn't). They can remind everyone that
they mean well (which I believe that they do). They can talk about how
successful the software is (and it should be - it can be really great when
it works) But the basic point can not be challenged. SW releases software
that does not work. Period.

And that is why I am at my wits end.

The next thing that was telling about my poll at the user group meeting was
a poll of when members got around to bug reporting. Maybe a third of the
folks even messed around with the software before their companies rollout...
and two thirds of that group found bugs. Only one of that group actually
reported the bugs. Out of thirty people at the meeting, one reported bugs in
time for it to effect the first couple of SPs.

As long as SW has this policy of releasing software that does not work, and
then relying on its user base instead of dedicated employees to identify the
problems, they will have a severe problem with the fixes lagging well behind
when the fixes are needed. They are relying on folks who a)have tons of
confidence in their skills in the software (what sized group is that?) to
b)identify and isolate the issues (what sized group is that?) that will c)
to catalog problems and take time away from paying work (what sized group is
that?) to d)report bugs that their experience might tell them will take
months or years to address. I for one pass all the tests, and am trying
really hard, but man, I am still having trouble justifying hours and hours
and hours of bug reporting where I should instead be working, or going home
to be with my wife. I know so many others who don't even bother, or who
think the problems are their fault (and assume that the software's
deficiency is their own).

I just want to make it clear that it is not the users fault that SW does not
work. I don't want any SW employee to think that it is just a bunch of
whiners or agitators who are making noise and rattling sabers for some weird
purposes. I don't even want this to be about enhancement requests....
hell, I don't want even one new feature until all of the existing issue have
been resolved! Even if it takes two years .... I don't care!
I have helped, have offered to help, and will continue to offer to help to
do anything that will fix this unfortunate and unnecessary state of affairs.
All I can say is that up until this release I have been an enthusiastic and
active supporter of SW. now... well, I am just feeling sad

Edward Eaton

gvgvf (24-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : gvgvf


Dato : 24-06-01 10:21

OK og se så posten fra Steen - han mangler en funktion så simpelt som
DXFOUT............

"Peter Andersen" <pa@nospam.dk> wrote in message
news:MPG.159d9e324f43f8ed989701@news.inet.tele.dk...
> > Hej Peter
> >
> > Taler det lange forløbne tidsrum ikke sit eget sprog?
> > Vi behøver vist ikke rippe op i det mere!
> >
> > Mvh
> > Leif
> >
>
>
> Hej, jo det gør det, men jeg kan ikke dy mig for yderligere at besvare
> SW's svar til mig d. 24 feb. Så jo jeg vil gerne underbygge mine
postulater.
> Dette har jeg så gjort nu med nedenstående kopier af debatten fra
> comp.cad.solidworks og dertil kan jeg igen sige at jeg IKKE ville vælge
> Solidworks hvis jeg var inden for maskinbranchen, og det er nu
underbygget.
>
> Hilsen Peter
>
>
> > From: "SW" <thhvejen@vejen-net.dk>
> > Newsgroups: dk.edb.cad
> >
> > > Jeg vil nok sige at jeg syntes at Solidworks parterne i denne dialog
> > > virker fuldstændig afsporet og virklighedsfjerne.
> >
> > Vil du venligst underbygge dine postulater med saglige argumenter
> >
> > > Mit indtryk er nu at hvis jeg var maskin-konstruktør, ville jeg nok
> > > hellere kigge på Autodesk produkter.
> >
> > Gør det, og kom tilbage når du har fortrudt (det er der mange andre der
har
> > gjort)
> >
> > sw
>
>
> Dugfriske indlæg fra comp.cad.solidworks, hvor debatten kører løs
>
> ***************
> Subject: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
> From: Sporkman <MUNGEsporked_again@bigfoot.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> To the management and especially the marketing goofs at SolidWorks
> Corp.:
>
> Used to be that there were a number of malcontents posting in this
> newsgroup about the lack of Surfacing options in SolidWorks. There were
> more than a couple of these sourpusses, but there were also a large
> number of regulars who would simply post a question or an answer to a
> question, and once in a while would defend SolidWorks Corp from its
> detractors. Often a particular rant would be "shouted down" with
> accusations that the ranter was either a Pro-E VAR or someone who ought
> to go buy Pro-E and leave the rest of us the hell alone.
>
> In case you haven't noticed there has been a marked change in the flavor
> of the newsgroup. Now your detractors are the people who used to defend
> you. The people who have been using SolidWorks the longest are now the
> ones who are the angriest. They're the ones saying that you're
> slipping, that you aren't testing your software sufficiently, that
> you're cheating your users by charging exhorbitant maintenance fees for
> much too little.
>
> Don't you think this deserves some attention?
>
> I'm tempted to tack on a euphemism beginning with "ass" and ending with
> "holes", but I'll try to restrain myself.
>
> Sporky
> **************
> Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
> From: "Malcolm B. Stephens" <m.b.stephens@stethour.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> Preach it brother!
> *****************
> Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
> From: "Don Jackson" <djackson@airfiber.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> YOU TELLEM' Sporky.
>
> I am one of the people that has been using this software since 1997 and
with each new release,
> service(?) pack or upgrade, the number of bummers has consistently
increased over the years.
>
> My current company, with 11 seats, has been using SWX since its inception
in '98. I was and
> continue to be the main driver. If this s*%t keeps up there is going to
be a serious review of
> our 3D software.
>
> I hate to say it but IV is starting to look like a viable choice and I
can't stand AutoCrap's
> customer support either!
>
> SolidWorks, Inc., you better start paying attention! Joe Dunne, it's time
to relay some
> information to HQ!
>
> Don Jackson
> AirFiber, Inc.
> ***************
> Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
> From: "Jay Guthrie" <jguthrie@worldnet.att.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> I too am one of the main people reasonable for getting SW in our company.
I
> am becoming increasing annoyed by the direction I see things starting to
go.
> SW is becoming too modular and that was one of the things that attracted
me
> to them in the first place. The Smart Fasteners thing is total BS and is
a
> insult to anyone who pays subscription service. There is no way in hell
we
> are going to pay for that. The bugs are driving me nuts!
>
> My faith is weakening.
>
> Jay
> ***************
> Subject: Re: Attention SolidWorks Corp.
> From: "Edward T Eaton" <ed'remove_this'eaton1701@home.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
>
> I am reticent to join on the venting bandwagon, but I have to admit that I
> am at my wits end (and who knows... maybe it will do something)
>
> I have always hated SW bashing, and I have no use for the 'my software is
> better than your software' talk.
> I know the folks over at SW are trying really hard to add to the package,
> because I have had contact with many of them through multiple forums, and
> throughout those contacts I absolutely trusted their sincerity.
> A year and a half ago, I took half a day away from my work to talk to a
> SolidWorks employee who made a special trip to my workplace to talk to me
> about the needs of my perceived specialty (groovy freeform design). He
> wanted to see what SW could add to their package to make things better for
> Industrial Designers. As I remember, he was taken off guard by my
response,
> because I did not have a laundry list of extra features and whatnot, as he
> expected. Instead, I said the number one thing they needed to do was
> implement good product testing, and the number two thing that they needed
to
> do was develop better training materials that would be available to all.
> I personally have been able to use SW to model everything that I can
> imagine, but it has come at the cost of having to aggressively develop a
> deep list of crazy workarounds, and to explore and identify an elaborate
> knowledge of the exceptions to exceptions to exceptions. It has been
hard,
> and it adds hours to my weeks, but I have been able to somehow miracle
every
> fillet to work, every sketch to solve, and every loft to fly.
> Since this last release, I run into truly awful behavior on the part of
the
> software on a daily basis. It is not hard to find bugs, and it is really
> easy to find poorly thought out interface issues. When I can get around
to
> it, my accumulated list list of 'still to report' bugs is going to take
me
> six or seven hours to go through with my VAR (and I do try to pick away at
> about an hour of them every few days - just ask them).
> The thing that gets me about all of this is that testing should have
caught
> most of it. Okay, there is always some weird things that they are
probably
> not going to get right away, but there is no reason that I can think of
that
> they never found the 'tangent surface model doesn't make a tangent solid'
> bug, the 'underdefined sketch shows completely black' bug, the 'distance
> mate spin box works when first making the mate but not when editing the
> mate' bug, the 'fillets fail with every new service pack' bug, the very
> common 'back to the desktop crashes', the 'through all cut arrow won't
flip
> until you change views when in the preview' bug, the 'can't modify the
> properties on a PAW materials because it always jumps back to the default'
> bug, etc.etc. etc. (I can actually rail for about an hour on basic stuff
> that could have been caught with very rudimentary product testing... I
know
> this, because I have done just rudimentary work on SW 2001, and I have
> isolated and identified hours of them)
>
> The way that I understand SW Corp is set up, they can't do real world
> testing. I have suggested here and elsewhere that SW hire a couple of
guys
> who's sole function is to model stuff (Monday morning :"here - make this
> stapler, with all drafts in place on the plastic, make sure all of the
> sheetmetal can unfold, and do production quality drains."...), and have
been
> told that it is simply not an option for SW to direct two salaries at this
> task. I even made the pitch that SW would develop a model database that
> they could freely use for sales and training, both of which would generate
> revenue in addition to helping out the user base. Still not possible.
>
> So, as most of us here know, we general users are earmarked to be the real
> product testers. And, due to the way we users have learned to cope with
the
> situation, the bugs are not going to be found until many months into the
> release.
>
> At the last meeting of the Chicago SolidWorks user group, I personally led
a
> discussion on how members' companies were rolling out SW2001. The telling
> thing is that, for the most part, companies have a policy of not adopting
SW
> until the second or third SP is released.
> This is learned behavior. No one can debate this point. VAR's advise it
as
> a matter of course. It is widely known and accepted that SW releases
> software that will not work.
> The SW employees who are monitoring this can feel uncomfortable. They can
> question my motives (though they shouldn't). They can remind everyone
that
> they mean well (which I believe that they do). They can talk about how
> successful the software is (and it should be - it can be really great when
> it works) But the basic point can not be challenged. SW releases software
> that does not work. Period.
>
> And that is why I am at my wits end.
>
> The next thing that was telling about my poll at the user group meeting
was
> a poll of when members got around to bug reporting. Maybe a third of the
> folks even messed around with the software before their companies
rollout...
> and two thirds of that group found bugs. Only one of that group actually
> reported the bugs. Out of thirty people at the meeting, one reported bugs
in
> time for it to effect the first couple of SPs.
>
> As long as SW has this policy of releasing software that does not work,
and
> then relying on its user base instead of dedicated employees to identify
the
> problems, they will have a severe problem with the fixes lagging well
behind
> when the fixes are needed. They are relying on folks who a)have tons of
> confidence in their skills in the software (what sized group is that?) to
> b)identify and isolate the issues (what sized group is that?) that will c)
> to catalog problems and take time away from paying work (what sized group
is
> that?) to d)report bugs that their experience might tell them will take
> months or years to address. I for one pass all the tests, and am trying
> really hard, but man, I am still having trouble justifying hours and hours
> and hours of bug reporting where I should instead be working, or going
home
> to be with my wife. I know so many others who don't even bother, or who
> think the problems are their fault (and assume that the software's
> deficiency is their own).
>
> I just want to make it clear that it is not the users fault that SW does
not
> work. I don't want any SW employee to think that it is just a bunch of
> whiners or agitators who are making noise and rattling sabers for some
weird
> purposes. I don't even want this to be about enhancement requests....
> hell, I don't want even one new feature until all of the existing issue
have
> been resolved! Even if it takes two years .... I don't care!
> I have helped, have offered to help, and will continue to offer to help to
> do anything that will fix this unfortunate and unnecessary state of
affairs.
> All I can say is that up until this release I have been an enthusiastic
and
> active supporter of SW. now... well, I am just feeling sad
>
> Edward Eaton



Poul B. (25-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : Poul B.


Dato : 25-06-01 15:13


gvgvf <huil@sfd.dk> skrev i en
nyhedsmeddelelse:3b35b10a$0$12619$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk...
> OK og se så posten fra Steen - han mangler en funktion så simpelt som
> DXFOUT............
>
Sikke da noget sludder....SolidWorks's "Save As" kan da gemme i både dwg og
dxf-format R12,13,14 og R2000.

Man kan hurtigt lave et lille VB script der helt automatisk gemmer i den DXF
version man ønsker....og som batch konverterer hvis det er det man
ønsker....

mvh Poul.



Peter Andersen (29-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : Peter Andersen


Dato : 29-06-01 23:15

> OK og se så posten fra Steen - han mangler en funktion så simpelt som
> DXFOUT............
>

Jaee, det sjove er at der åbenbart ikke er nogen Solidworks fyre der tør svare mere
De må være skræmte fra vid sans og kæmper sikkert også med utilfredse kunder nu, hø hø
Den tragiske føljeton fortsætter åbenbart stadig i comp.cad.solidworks :0)

Med fortsat latterfyldt hilsen Peter

****************

Subject: Crash Crash Crash
From: paul.hickman@sunmed.co.uk (Paul Hickman)
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Is it me or does SP5 of SW2001 crash even more often than any other.
Mine has now crashed 4 times today and I only have assemblies of a
dozen parts!! SP4 didn't do that. This is very infuriating, especially
when the auto recover doesn't always seem to work. And that damn
Property Manager is really getting on my nerves.

This product seems to have been going backwards in the last 2 years
with the only inprovements being cosmetic. Just what the hell is going
on at Corprate SW? Resting on their laurels laughing all the way to
the bank I would think after sucking in thousands of companies into
buying licenses when SW was good.

I'm not against SW as such, I just wish their software did what they
promised.

Just letting off steam,
Paul.

***************

Subject: Re: Crash Crash Crash
From: "Poul B." <psb@12move.dk>
Reply-To: "Poul B." <psb@nospam12move.dk>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

You're lucky....

I've just had my 6'th crash today....all caused by simple mating and a
change of configuration - and auto recover failed every time......

Monday I'll roll back to SP4 - at least it seemed to be more stable.......

Regards,
Poul B.

tj (01-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : tj


Dato : 01-07-01 11:33

> OK og se så posten fra Steen - han mangler en funktion så simpelt som
> DXFOUT............

Som jeg læser det, så har Steen ikke SW - han skal have konverteret nogen
filer uden brug af SW.
Jeg kan ikke tro, at SW ikke kan levere DXF.
mvh Thomas


P.C. (01-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : P.C.


Dato : 01-07-01 12:38

Hi.

tj skrev i meddelelsen <9hmu3d$j8j$1@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>> OK og se så posten fra Steen - han mangler en funktion så simpelt som
>> DXFOUT............
>
>Som jeg læser det, så har Steen ikke SW - han skal have konverteret nogen
>filer uden brug af SW.
>Jeg kan ikke tro, at SW ikke kan levere DXF.
>mvh Thomas
>
Det kan man vel lade komme an på en prøve ;))
Altså bare en dxf med 16 bit pression, så kan vi jo alle se om SW. kan håndtere
DXF export ; korriger mig endelig, men en DXF fil er jo "læsbar" på den måde at
den definerer solids eller hvilkensomhelst "fælles" entity som kan vises på
skærmen af ethvert CAD system, -------- det er jo det der er meningen med fælles
standarder og det _er_ jo vigtigt at overholde fælles vedtagne normer indenfor
CAD/CAM . At så DXF formatet er meget primitivt er så en helt anden snak, men
jeg ville da gerne se nogle overbevisende konstruktioner som er projekteret med
SW. ,det burde jo være muligt at exportere til andre systemer.
Ok, ------- jeg skriver dette mest for at følge med i den danske CAD debat, idet
det vel er helt rimeligt at man bliver nysgerrig.
Have a nice day.
P.C.




tj (01-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : tj


Dato : 01-07-01 17:03

> Det kan man vel lade komme an på en prøve ;))

Jeg har ingen mulighed for at teste det, som sagt er jeg bare af den
overbevisning, at SW kan levere DXF?
Som du jo også skriver, at det en simpel standard - så monm SW ikke kan
levere det?

mvh Thomas


mold_kon (02-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : mold_kon


Dato : 02-07-01 06:10

SolidWorks har ingen problemer med at levere DXF filer.
Det jeg tror Steen gerne vil have er en lille macro der kan konvertere en
hel mappe på een gang, så han slipper for at åbne filen og lave en save as
til hver tegning.

mvh

Lars


"tj" <diverse_tj@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9hnheg$53v$1@news.inet.tele.dk...
> > Det kan man vel lade komme an på en prøve ;))
>
> Jeg har ingen mulighed for at teste det, som sagt er jeg bare af den
> overbevisning, at SW kan levere DXF?
> Som du jo også skriver, at det en simpel standard - så monm SW ikke kan
> levere det?
>
> mvh Thomas
>



P.C. (02-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : P.C.


Dato : 02-07-01 10:48

Hi.

mold_kon skrev i meddelelsen <9hover$83o$1@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>SolidWorks har ingen problemer med at levere DXF filer.
>Det jeg tror Steen gerne vil have er en lille macro der kan konvertere en
>hel mappe på een gang, så han slipper for at åbne filen og lave en save as
>til hver tegning.

Jamen ----- kan Dxf egentlig håndtere og konvertere de specielle projekterings
systemer som de større CAD pakker hver især håndterer efter deres system til
andre pakker ?
Er det netop ikke her Dxf er begrænset idet standard entities jo blot er
"byggeklodserne" hvorimod registrerings systemer ikke kan overføres via Dxf,
slå mig bare oven i hovedet , hvis jeg har misforstået hele denne debat ;))
P.C



P.C. (02-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : P.C.


Dato : 02-07-01 12:44

Hi.

P.C. skrev i meddelelsen <9hpft0$cfm$1@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>Hi.

Ja undskyld jeg så generelt, men er det netop ikke problemet med Dxf formatet,
at det er så primitivt og samtidigt jo næppe kan håndtere de specielle features
,sadskiller et CAD program fra andre CAD programmer ; man ser det jo tit at
f.eks. mesh entities der importeres i f.eks 3Ds ,bliver "opfattet" som helt
andre typer entities, ------- hvilket jo i ovennævnte tilfælde er en fordel og
faktisk et handy værktøj hvis man f.eks. gerne vil skære et rundt hul i en mesh
entity, som man jo ikke kan i f.eks. AutoCAD.
Men at to programpakker fra samme firma ikke tolker Dxf koder ens, tyder da ikke
på at det skulle være nemmere hvis der er tale om konkurerende firmaer ; hvis
jeg projekterer en bygning med 85 bygge elementer med hver 10 under grupper
eller block's i en Acad applikasion og får sammenhæng i projekteringen på den
måde, ------ hvad andet end 85 forskellige byggeblokke uden referencer kan der
så komme ud af at omsætte tegningen til Dxf.
Er det i virkeligheden hverken SW. eller Autodesk's skyld at fælles normer
alligevel er umulige, fordi hvem tegner CAD bare for at tegne fancy ting
; ------ jeg mener, man bruger da CAD for at projektere eller kontrolere, hvis
ikke det handler om NC eller geometriske udregninger og generering af asemblies
til et konkret produkt eller ............ Altså altsammen noget med at definere
selve objekterne og "gøre" noget med dem eller "bruge" dem sammen med andre
komponenter ,------------ meningen forsvinder lidt, hvis man efterlades med en
tegning med tusinde ligegyldige ens blokke, som man ikke kender placeringen af
eller forskellem imellem hvis man blot bevistløst overfører entities der
ovenikøbet tolkes forskelligt af de forskellige applikasioner og CAD programmer.
Eller hvad skulle meningen være med _en_ kæmpe block der definerer en hel
bygning, hvis man ikke kan bruge informasionerne i tegningen til at projektere
bygningen.
Man skulle tro at jo simplere en fælles standard er, jo nemmere integrerer man
fælles objekter i forskellige systemer, ------ men det er langtfra sandt.

Ok, ------- det vigtigste ved CAD er jo CAM , på den ene eller anden måde og så
er de fancy'e projekter næppe andet end blik-fang, hvilket gør det endnu
vigtigere at programmerne har fælles standarder der "taler" om samme objekt
typer, ----- men det gør de heller ikke .
Have a nice day.
P.C.




tj (02-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : tj


Dato : 02-07-01 20:55

> Det jeg tror Steen gerne vil have er en lille macro der kan konvertere en
> hel mappe på een gang, så han slipper for at åbne filen og lave en save as

Aha .... En oplevelse man ikke kan få nok af .....
jeg misforstod det lidt beklager, det giver også mere mening på den måde
mvh Thomas


tj (27-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : tj


Dato : 27-06-01 21:34

> comp.cad.solidworks og dertil kan jeg igen sige at jeg IKKE ville vælge
> Solidworks hvis jeg var inden for maskinbranchen, og det er nu
underbygget.
>
Jeg vil egentligt helst ikke have noget klinket i denne debat, da den til
tider er temmelig hård.
Men alligevel, hvis man tager brugere nok, vil der altid være nogen der ikke
er tilfredse/uheldige - så at sige at påstanden er underbygget via indlæg i
en newsgroup, mener jeg er lige kæk nok. F.eks ville windoze være et dårligt
program, hvis man tog alle de negative indlæg om det LOL
Jeg er ganske overbevist om, at alle programmer har gode sider - og sjovt
nok dårlige sider
mvh Thomas



P.C. (28-06-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : P.C.


Dato : 28-06-01 13:56

Hi.

tj skrev i meddelelsen <9hdfs6$la1$1@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>> comp.cad.solidworks og dertil kan jeg igen sige at jeg IKKE ville vælge
>> Solidworks hvis jeg var inden for maskinbranchen, og det er nu
>underbygget.
>>
>Jeg vil egentligt helst ikke have noget klinket i denne debat, da den til
>tider er temmelig hård.
>Men alligevel, hvis man tager brugere nok, vil der altid være nogen der ikke
>er tilfredse/uheldige - så at sige at påstanden er underbygget via indlæg i
>en newsgroup, mener jeg er lige kæk nok. F.eks ville windoze være et dårligt
>program, hvis man tog alle de negative indlæg om det LOL
>Jeg er ganske overbevist om, at alle programmer har gode sider - og sjovt
>nok dårlige sider
>mvh Thomas
>

Jeg har altid synes, at når det handler om CAD så er CAM siden lige så vigtig.
Det er helt fint med fancy grafik som er genereret med uoverskuelige men dybt
logiske funktioner og det kan se godt ud på en hjemmeside, men det er alså også
godt, hvis man kan producere det.
Lidt interesant er det da,------- og Solid modeling _er_ jo interesant ,om det
vigtigste så er at sælge mest CAD eller producere vha. CAD kan man så diskutere
;)) Samtidig er det jo ikke alt her i verden der absolut _behøver_ at have
fysisk form ,alligevel ville webbet nok være mindre "hult" , hvis de værste
nørder kunne distancere sig blot en lille smule fra altid at opsøge de mest
_umulige_ opgaver og måske istedet udvikle noget der har et konkret praktisk
formål.
Måske er det ligegyldigt at man kan glemme alt om NC programering og blot
afdække det materiale der skal fjernes i 2D, men det er da praktisk at vide for
en design studerende, at man ikke absolut behøver at være computer nørd, for at
lave en praktisk eller fancy stol. ------ og det hjælper da en lille smule, hvis
man kan pege på, hvilke NC maskiner der kan håndtere emnerne.
Det er vel efterhånden ligegyldigt hvilket program man vælger til at projektere
i, men det er absolut ikke ligegyldigt om man _skal kunne programere eller om
programmet har en anvendelig brugerflade.
Selvfølgelig er det da flot at kunne sætte en matematisk korrekt vase på en
hjemmeside, hvor det handler om hvad der er "inderside" og hvad programmet kan
definere som "yderside"------ men det virker somom det ikke er så vigtigt, om
den kan produceres eller ej, og _det_ synes "jeg" er ærgeligt.
Have a nice day.
P.C.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/






Peter Andersen (29-07-2001)
Kommentar
Fra : Peter Andersen


Dato : 29-07-01 12:05

Hmm, det kører jo videre for CrashWorks eller skal vi sige NOTWorks?

Nedenstående dugfriske indlæg er fra comp.cad.solidworks


Med fortsat latterfyldt hilsen Peter

********************
Subject: Why was I so Stupid!
From: Mark Forsthoefel <frostdes@erinet.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

I can't believe I was so nieve to believe that another SP would be
better than the last! Instead, I have to dump it all and start over!
First I bought into SP5, which of course was broken, but I was getting
things done. Now with SP6, I've taken one giant step backward, as I
believe that I've corrupted my 2nd only assembly (both in SW2001). Word
to the wise, let everyone else debug this stuff, and just be happy with
your current productivity. I'm really not one to gripe, but how many
times does SW need to twiddle with their code to get things right? I
truly believe that if I had never purchased the subscription option, I
would have been a happier fellow. Since I do mold design, the only
additions I've seen to SW for my purposes, has been whistles & bells,
and feel my productivity has actually decreased.



Subject: Zoom crash... further complication???
From: "Olaf Diegel" <olaf@cds.co.nz>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Hi all,
With regards to the current thread that has been going on with SP6 and
the crash when zooming in and right click/select...

It's been crashing for me about every half hour to hour or so with that
bug, but I may have a further complication to the same bug. On both my
systems, it seems that it is not just the right click/select that
crashes it, but also occasionaly picking the standard select tool (the
arrow tool) (which I assume has the same effect as right click select
in the SW code?).

Has anyone else come accros the same... Will not be anle to furtehr
test as I think its high time for me to head back to SP$ or 5 (neither
of whcih gave me any crashes).

Regards
Olaf
Laptop: gateway 9300, p3700, 120mb, W2000 sp2, ATI rage mobility
(currently with graphic acceleration all the way down, i gradually took
it down one step at a time to see if it helped with the above crashes,
and now its turned right down)
Home machine, 1.3G Athlon, 512mb, Geforce 2, Win200sp2
--
*****************************************************************
Olaf Diegel, PhD Student, Product Development
Institute of Technology & Engineering, Massey University
Tel: 443 9700 ext 9843 Home: (09) 626 5583


Subject: Re: Zoom crash... further complication???
From: "Mark Mossberg" <mark_mos@pacbell.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Olaf,

Verified on three machines here

Regards
Mark


Subject: Re: Zoom crash... further complication???
From: Lon_Flickinger@slmti.com (Lon Flickinger)
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Yes, that bug is verified on 2 machines here out of 3 and the other
guy hasn't been working on his for the last 2 days so I suspect it
will happen to his too. Mine occurs when selecting the arrow (select
icon) after doing a zoom. I get the "memory can't be read" error, but
I have also had the magic disappearing to the desktop error also from
something else.

Lon Flickinger
SL-MTI


Subject: Re: Zoom crash... further complication???
From: Mark Forsthoefel <frostdes@erinet.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

I never got the zoom in problem, but what you described is exactly the
problem I had (before reinstalling SW to SP4). I was trying to edit a
sketch in an assembly, and did zoom in, but as soon as I picked the
select arrow, SW would bomb! I didn't try to figure out step by step
what caused the dump, as I prefer not to continue to be a beta site for
SW, not to mention that a new patch to fix this problem will more than
likely break something else.




Subject: sw sp6 crashing....
From: poison_apples <abyss@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: no-one@all
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

i am getting alot of crashes today after installing sp6....when
mating...saving....zooming...anyone else...

pIII 900 all scsi with 32MB oxygen vx1 under win 2000 pro....

is this a common problem with sp6....i was the test boy today....with
every sp their seems to be more problems....


Subject: Re: sw sp6 crashing....
From: "Mike J. Wilson" <mikejohn@thegrid.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Yeppers,
It's not lookin' good...
Several of my co-workers are eXPeriencing this as well.

Mike Wilson


Subject: Re: sw sp6 crashing....
From: matt <mlombard@frontiernet.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Mr Poison Apples:

Joe D. pointed out (and several have confirmed) that SW crashes when
you turn off the zoom or hit select when mates are shown in the prop
mgr.
Spr is issued.

I crashed twice today while saving a 600 part assy after changing
configs, but I can't pin it down better than that. I thought we paid
someone else to do this testing.

Matt.


Subject: Re: sw sp6 crashing....
From: poison_apples <abyss@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: no-one@all
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

i guess i'll unistall again...and put it back to sp5...
better luck next time...for now on..all tests done at home
first...what a wasted day..


Subject: Re: sw sp6 crashing....
From: "Michael Martin" <m.m.k@t-online.de>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

SW crashes with SP6 endless..

My Computer:
Xeon 933 , 768 MB Ram, Ultra Scsi, Fire GL 2, Win2K SP2

Michael


************
Subject: Sporky, tell them it crashed again!
From: "Tom Chasteen" <tchasteen@powdersys.com>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

Sporky,

Tell them it crashed again! Please explain that I purchased SW because
of
STABILITY, and the fact that Cimlogic Toolbox knew the difference
between a DIN 40 mm snap ring and an ANSI 40 mm snap ring groove.

All the improvements (attempted improvements) are great, but the
software must be rock solid.

Have A Happy!

Tom Chasteen
************
Subject: Re: Sporky, tell them it crashed again!
From: "John Kreutzberger" <jkmolddesign@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks

We will continue to experience frequent crashes with SWX until they
undo some of the tweeking that went on with the GUI for SW2001. I am
convinced that this is the case. Why else would they have gone to the
trouble of listing all of those graphics cards with the specific
settings required for SWX ro work at all, let alone optimally. They
KNEW they had a problem. It's just bigger than they thought and it's
not going away.

Glitter+bugs+arrogance=failure. Just ask the Cadkey folks. This is
exactly how their decline began.

jk

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